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Solution to Jita overcrowding: automatically adjusting isk/sec fee
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Minerva Achaea
Entropic Doom
#1 - 2013-05-08 20:11:22 UTC
A solution to Jita overcrowding is to institute a fee (isk/sec) for being in a system (or whatever the granularity is where you can't throw more hardware at the problem)... the fee goes up when its approaching capacity, and down when it's sufficiently below capacity. A market price to balance supply and demand! You can put it up at the top with the 'time dilation'. And it's an excellent isk sink - you could increase mission rewards or something.

As it is now, you have people sitting on Jita shooting fireworks and chatting while transports pile up outside the gate getting preyed on by pirates - the security dynamic of the game is changed completely since what was guaranteed (that you could get through a gate) is now randomly altered. I now contract things that used to be reasonable to carry in a fast ship, on the off chance Jita is closed.

And the modal dialog and not letting autopilot keep retrying is also very unpleasant, but with a fee it would never come to a hard limit.

Entropic Dooom: get paid to kill people! Revenue paid out weighted by destruction. Guaranteed 100M isk total weekly payout. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3108383
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#2 - 2013-05-08 20:18:11 UTC
So, because people are interacting with one another in an MMO, you want to lock newbies out of Jita permanently?
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#3 - 2013-05-08 20:22:20 UTC
-1. This is as the game was intended! You can't start charging because the population went up...what about Rens, Hek and all the other Trading Hubs in New Eden, do you want a "Charge per Jump" introduced as well?

An awful idea and ill-conceived and I'm also suspecting a troll post...no?

[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b] Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!
Twilight Runner
#4 - 2013-05-08 20:23:51 UTC
Can't see this working. Can't charge people to trade. There's already a is sink for that
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#5 - 2013-05-08 20:37:14 UTC
I'd love to know what you were smoking when you thought this up.

First of all, as someone mentioned, this will pretty much lock out newbies from trade hubs.

Secondly, you talk smack about the people who are just hanging around chatting. Like the afk auto pilot lazy frikkin people have any more right to be there than someone else who pays for this game just like they do?

I don't know how to say "Hell no!" in enough languages. So Google Translate will help me.

没有地狱 !!

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#6 - 2013-05-08 20:40:54 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Minerva Achaea wrote:
As it is now, you have people sitting on Jita shooting fireworks and chatting while transports pile up outside the gate getting preyed on by pirates

So basically, some people are having fun and other people are inconvenienced by it?

...

I fail to see the issue here.

Minerva Achaea wrote:
- the security dynamic of the game is changed completely since what was guaranteed (that you could get through a gate) is now randomly altered. I now contract things that used to be reasonable to carry in a fast ship, on the off chance Jita is closed.

Or... you know... you COULD go to one of the other trade hubs where things aren't so congested.

As for the "security dynamic... is now randomly altered" thing... how is this any different from an unannounced Burn Jita event? Always assume that "Murphy's Law" is in effect and plan accordingly. You are not entitled to guarantees any more than the next player is.



I'm going to go with a solid "no" on this. It's almost as bad as "fuel for normal ship travel" ideas and will only serve to lock people out of certain areas because they aren't as "rich."

How did you Veterans start?
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#7 - 2013-05-08 22:20:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Zan Shiro
best way to fight the overcrowding is to not go there.

People have different processes but mine I use alot is is it worth going to jita save a few million. Time to, time back....will my next mission cover the few million markup out side of jita and be a better use of time.

This way I just hit jita as needed like once every week or so. Ofc the key to this setup is have your char(s) in a region with healthy side markets close by.

When I did indy stocking up side systems also turned a couple isk. Priced to make it more appealing to buy local than deal with the road trip to jita. Ole boy jsut wants his t2 ammo, don't gouge him and he will slip you the extra isk or 2 sometimes.
Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2013-05-08 23:17:13 UTC
Wait. The solution doesn't lie on increasing taxes. You need to solve the issues from the bottom. And the best way for it is to add infrastructure to other parts of the universe so people would spread the market.

The idea of Revamping POS adding market to them is a good option. most of the market iterations from jita would be redirected to them, and only final commodities would be sent there... most of the building materials would be used inside the micro-systems of alliances and corporations, having no need to get moved to jita.

Also I think that some changes in the manufacturing ststem could move people from hi-sec creating more trade hubs...

Please read these!

New POS system New SOV system
Nagnor
The Happy Shooters
#9 - 2013-05-09 00:09:18 UTC
OP has a point: there is an issue with Jita getting more and more overcrowded and somethings should be done about it. The suggestion of a fee for being in the highly populated system is not a bad idea, but would need some enhancements.
  • Pricing should be dynamic using parameter like amount of free slots in the system (similar to office rent in stations) and duration that player has been in the system.
  • Below a threshold (85%? ) no fee will be charged.
  • Even during high load a small amount of time (first 5-10 minutes?) should free. (So no Jita for the Rich only Smile
  • Before player is being charged the fee, he will receive dialog notifying him of it (charged ISK for first tick shown) and giving him the options to authorize charge, reject charge and checkbox don't show dialog in future (but use now selected action). In case of authorize charge player will be charge by the tick for the presents in that system. In case of reject charge player will be logged off. If the player is AFK/hadn't made a choice at the dialog within a certain time (1 minute ?) he will be logged off as well.
  • Logged off players due to rejecting congestion charge can log in again and will be place in a neighboring system (just like it is currently the case)
  • Players who can't pay the charge for the next tick, will be logged off as well (Wallet will not go negative!!)
  • Optionally authorization dialog may also have option for authorize charge for 10 minutes presence. To prevent emptying complete wallet.

    • I don't have numbers on how active people are in Jita but AFK players will automatically be removed from the system, making room for people wanting to go briefly to the system for trade/transport.

    Has there ever DoS attacks beeng done by having x (trial) accounts log in just after downtime in Jita and go AFK till the next downtime?
    Nagnor
    The Happy Shooters
    #10 - 2013-05-09 00:17:56 UTC
    Additionally the overcrowding could also be fought by informing people that a system is overcrowded at that time. They can then make the decision not to go to that system (and be logged off after their first couple of free minutes has ended, while being AFK Auto-Piloted to the system)
    Obvious place to show the congestion are
  • on the Starmap: filter Average Pilots in Space in the last 30 minutes, With a different color, not just a shade of orange/red
    • [*] in the Route, with a blinking symbol and tooltip saying Congested: charges in effect
    Commander Ted
    Caldari Provisions
    Caldari State
    #11 - 2013-05-09 03:44:50 UTC
    I think the proposal in my signature would have a better chance of killing jita, than this... really terrible idea.

    https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.
    Danika Princip
    GoonWaffe
    Goonswarm Federation
    #12 - 2013-05-09 05:28:28 UTC
    Nagnor wrote:
    OP has a point: there is an issue with Jita getting more and more overcrowded and somethings should be done about it. The suggestion of a fee for being in the highly populated system is not a bad idea, but would need some enhancements.
  • Pricing should be dynamic using parameter like amount of free slots in the system (similar to office rent in stations) and duration that player has been in the system.
  • Below a threshold (85%? ) no fee will be charged.
  • Even during high load a small amount of time (first 5-10 minutes?) should free. (So no Jita for the Rich only Smile
  • Before player is being charged the fee, he will receive dialog notifying him of it (charged ISK for first tick shown) and giving him the options to authorize charge, reject charge and checkbox don't show dialog in future (but use now selected action). In case of authorize charge player will be charge by the tick for the presents in that system. In case of reject charge player will be logged off. If the player is AFK/hadn't made a choice at the dialog within a certain time (1 minute ?) he will be logged off as well.
  • Logged off players due to rejecting congestion charge can log in again and will be place in a neighboring system (just like it is currently the case)
  • Players who can't pay the charge for the next tick, will be logged off as well (Wallet will not go negative!!)
  • Optionally authorization dialog may also have option for authorize charge for 10 minutes presence. To prevent emptying complete wallet.

    • I don't have numbers on how active people are in Jita but AFK players will automatically be removed from the system, making room for people wanting to go briefly to the system for trade/transport.

    Has there ever DoS attacks beeng done by having x (trial) accounts log in just after downtime in Jita and go AFK till the next downtime?


    How does limiting people to 10 minutes in Jita not lock out the people who aren't spacerich? Have you ever actually fit a ship, or sold some loot?
    Danni stark
    #13 - 2013-05-09 09:15:35 UTC
    solution to jita overcrowding; stop going there.

    Ice Mining Skill Plan.
    Nagnor
    The Happy Shooters
    #14 - 2013-05-09 09:53:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Nagnor
    Danika Princip wrote:

    ....
    How does limiting people to 10 minutes in Jita not lock out the people who aren't spacerich? Have you ever actually fit a ship, or sold some loot?

    The length of free presence is a suggestion, but personally I think 10 minutes is long enough to do your stuff if you are focused.
    Question How much time do you think it would take to jump into Jita, travel to 4-4, (un)load your hauler, undock and jumping to a gate

    For Market Ops, remote buying item from sell orders doesn't require any skill. Remote placing sell orders up to 5 systems away requires Marketing II (multiplier 3). Remote updating existing orders up to 5 systems away requires Daytrading II (multiplier 1). If you are doing a bit of trading you have the prerequisite Trade IV (multiplier 1) trained already any way because of the maximum on open orders and the cost saving by training some levels of Accounting and Broker Relations.
    So with a bit of training you can do all your trading in numerous (non-congested) systems around Jita

    Regarding Jita for the spacerich: the pricing should be progressive: the first 5 charged minutes when at 86% occupancy can be as little 5k, but the 200th 5 minute period (16 hrs 40m) with Jita at 99% occupancy should be very hefty for example 20M. Such pricing strategies work well to create balance. Have seen it myself when renting an office. Initially none available, but after 1-2 months of daily rent increase of 5% numerous corps cleared their office (voluntarily or been kicked out :) and we got ours.

    So if you are multi boxing and have your Jita alt mostly AFK all day you can choose to do so and might have to pay the price for the priviledge. At the same time you can also choose not to pay anything, by keeping your business in Jita short, not going during rush hours or avoiding Jita altogether. That is up to you.