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EVE Online: Retribution 1.2 Feedback

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Trit
Constructive Influence
Brothers of Tangra
#21 - 2013-05-07 13:50:27 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Trit wrote:
Just out of curiosity, has the bpo's for the cap ships been modified? Yesterday you still needed the capital launcher components to build a ship that had no launchers anymore lolz.


The Nag BPO will be adjusted to remove the capital launchers but that change was not released in 1.2


Cart before the horse?

Perhaps you could expand a little. Will the changes be revenue neutral as far as build costs go? ie: will you require just as many comps to build but more of turret hardpoints and 0 launcher etc? Or perhaps you could tell us when these changes might occur.

Many people will be discontinuing making nags due to the fact that building them with these changes was not reviewed prior to the changes to the ship itself.

Shine on Crazy Nubbins
Panhead4411
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services
The Possum Lodge
#22 - 2013-05-07 15:45:21 UTC
Facsimilie wrote:
Raze Zindonas wrote:
Orca is so damn dark. Why did you change it?
I second this. I don't have many ships, but they seem darker now; the Orca is extremely difficult to see any details unless zoomed all the way in.

The darkness/difficulty of seeing ships has always bugged me, but now it's worse.

This is the pattern CCP has been using over the past year since they started in with the V3' textures....take every hull, dip it in black ink...

Its either the dev's as a whole have gotten brand new monitors and turned all the brightness settings all the way up, thus the ship looks perfectly fine to them. Or, the feel that since they spent soo much time on all of the very annoying and VERY repetitive sounds for every little thing, that in order to see your ship's detail, they want you in as close as possible to force you to listen to the sounds? (i know i know, Eve has sound?)

Personally, i don't like these changes. Heck even in station the new orca model looks like its sitting under heavy cloud cover and sucking the light away from the surroundings.

For the 'realists'...yes space is dark in RL, but in RL you can't shoot through any/all objects between you and your target, along with many other things (sound in RL space anyone?).

But alas, CCP feels that they know best, and i have yet to notice even a single occurrence of them taking player feedback on the 'art' side and actually making a change...moreso when the typical response to feedback to anything under the art departments realm is "Art is not seeking feedback on this..." So i'm not hopeful for any change in this pattern of darker and darker hulls. I mean, it is 'spreasheets in space' anyways, so why should we really care if we can actually see our ships in the first place?

http://blog.beyondreality.se/shift-click-does-nothing    < Unified Inventory is NOT ready...
BugraT WarheaD
#23 - 2013-05-07 15:56:41 UTC
I don't know if it was mentionned before, but Eve Online and Dust 514 Players cannot speak via EveVoice on Corporation Channels, but they can on private chans ... Isn't this really sad and buggy ? Smile
IceDe4d
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#24 - 2013-05-07 16:10:26 UTC
market runs very nice good job ccp
Hakaru Ishiwara
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2013-05-07 16:15:18 UTC
Panhead4411 wrote:
Facsimilie wrote:
Raze Zindonas wrote:
Orca is so damn dark. Why did you change it?
I second this. I don't have many ships, but they seem darker now; the Orca is extremely difficult to see any details unless zoomed all the way in.

The darkness/difficulty of seeing ships has always bugged me, but now it's worse.

This is the pattern CCP has been using over the past year since they started in with the V3' textures....take every hull, dip it in black ink...

Its either the dev's as a whole have gotten brand new monitors and turned all the brightness settings all the way up, thus the ship looks perfectly fine to them. Or, the feel that since they spent soo much time on all of the very annoying and VERY repetitive sounds for every little thing, that in order to see your ship's detail, they want you in as close as possible to force you to listen to the sounds? (i know i know, Eve has sound?)

Personally, i don't like these changes. Heck even in station the new orca model looks like its sitting under heavy cloud cover and sucking the light away from the surroundings.

For the 'realists'...yes space is dark in RL, but in RL you can't shoot through any/all objects between you and your target, along with many other things (sound in RL space anyone?).

But alas, CCP feels that they know best, and i have yet to notice even a single occurrence of them taking player feedback on the 'art' side and actually making a change...moreso when the typical response to feedback to anything under the art departments realm is "Art is not seeking feedback on this..." So i'm not hopeful for any change in this pattern of darker and darker hulls. I mean, it is 'spreasheets in space' anyways, so why should we really care if we can actually see our ships in the first place?

Quoting for emphasis. When CCP V3'd various minmatar tech 2 ships, the charcoal camo seriously sucked. Paraphrasing my commentary from approximately 11 months ago: It appears that a child with a charcoal stick was placed in charge of the V3 minnie tech 2 redesign work.

+++++++ I have never shed a tear for a fellow EVE player until now. Mark “Seleene” Heard's Blog Honoring Sean "Vile Rat" Smith.
Fillingkillboards
State War Academy
Caldari State
#26 - 2013-05-07 16:19:03 UTC
The Charon is so grey it makes pandas cry
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#27 - 2013-05-07 18:54:00 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Fozzie
Trit wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Trit wrote:
Just out of curiosity, has the bpo's for the cap ships been modified? Yesterday you still needed the capital launcher components to build a ship that had no launchers anymore lolz.


The Nag BPO will be adjusted to remove the capital launchers but that change was not released in 1.2


Cart before the horse?

Perhaps you could expand a little. Will the changes be revenue neutral as far as build costs go? ie: will you require just as many comps to build but more of turret hardpoints and 0 launcher etc? Or perhaps you could tell us when these changes might occur.

Many people will be discontinuing making nags due to the fact that building them with these changes was not reviewed prior to the changes to the ship itself.


We'll be removing the 20 capital launcher hardpoints and adding 20 more capital turret hardpoints to the Naglfar (similarly to the swap that we made on the Ragnarok a while back). This change will release in Odyssey on June 4th.

In the meantime between now and June 4th the Nag has literally the same build requirements as before, but is a better ship that will see more demand. If you made Nags before 1.2 and you're stopping now I would contend you're doing it wrong. Smile

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Erik Finnegan
Polytechnique Gallenteenne
#28 - 2013-05-07 19:43:44 UTC
I always wondered where the CQs were located in the hangars and I am now very happy that at least Gallente, Minmatar, and Caldari station interiors are pretty consistent with the balcony. Pretty ! Big smile Only in Amarr stations, CQ from inside appears to be above the great undock passage where nothing can be spotted in hangar view.

Still well done, artists !
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#29 - 2013-05-07 19:52:29 UTC
Panhead4411 wrote:
Facsimilie wrote:
Raze Zindonas wrote:
Orca is so damn dark. Why did you change it?
I second this. I don't have many ships, but they seem darker now; the Orca is extremely difficult to see any details unless zoomed all the way in.

The darkness/difficulty of seeing ships has always bugged me, but now it's worse.

This is the pattern CCP has been using over the past year since they started in with the V3' textures....take every hull, dip it in black ink...

Its either the dev's as a whole have gotten brand new monitors and turned all the brightness settings all the way up, thus the ship looks perfectly fine to them. Or, the feel that since they spent soo much time on all of the very annoying and VERY repetitive sounds for every little thing, that in order to see your ship's detail, they want you in as close as possible to force you to listen to the sounds? (i know i know, Eve has sound?)

Personally, i don't like these changes. Heck even in station the new orca model looks like its sitting under heavy cloud cover and sucking the light away from the surroundings.

For the 'realists'...yes space is dark in RL, but in RL you can't shoot through any/all objects between you and your target, along with many other things (sound in RL space anyone?).

But alas, CCP feels that they know best, and i have yet to notice even a single occurrence of them taking player feedback on the 'art' side and actually making a change...moreso when the typical response to feedback to anything under the art departments realm is "Art is not seeking feedback on this..." So i'm not hopeful for any change in this pattern of darker and darker hulls. I mean, it is 'spreasheets in space' anyways, so why should we really care if we can actually see our ships in the first place?


From what I remember:

Yes, things are darker. That's because a prerequisite of the new lighting system is getting things V3ed first. Once that's in place, the lighting will be updated, which should make things look shinier.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Shinta Kobi
Jupiter Roughriders
No Forks Given
#30 - 2013-05-07 20:04:40 UTC
Very nice work. The level of detail from the cap ships to the station hangars are awesome. I especially like the touch of the ships passing in and out of the station. It gives a more interactive feel to the game.

Is there a chance that there will be some kind of visual docking and undocking in the future?
Alkaza Minin
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2013-05-07 23:39:43 UTC
While I do like the new changes and graphics, there are a few bugs that I have noticed. When I first logged in my ship didn't appear until I left it to get into the pod (which also didn't appear) and then re-entered the ship. And also the ship I was flying is the Proteus, which for some reason now has white lights all over its hull instead of the correct green-tinted lights. If these small problems were fixed, that'd be great

WoW holds your hand until end game, and gives you a cookie whether you win or lose. EVE not only takes your cookie, but laughs at you for bringing one in the first place...

Ranzabar
Doomheim
#32 - 2013-05-07 23:57:23 UTC
Where most game producers go for the most common denominator, you guys push the envelope. Sometimes the envelope pushes back, but that's a topic for another time.

Meanwhile, back to spinning ships...V3 work is very noticeable. I have all the controls cranked up and my graphics card hasn't combusted...yet.

I pay my money every month knowing that I don't really scratch the surface of this game, but whenever I have quit in frustration, I miss the damn thing and pull out the MasterCard once again.

And that's impressive. Anyone who knows what a cheapskate I am know that my credit cards don't like to see the light of day.

Abide
Shinyo Kasataste
Mandible Inc
COLONY.
#33 - 2013-05-08 01:27:51 UTC
Looks fantastic love all the new ship textures Big smile Just wondering if the smaller "pre-pics" "if you will" will change to show the actual texture rather than the older ones?

Thanks for being awesome CCP
Noxidos
Coswain Procurements and Exploration
#34 - 2013-05-08 07:50:46 UTC
Lovin the new stations and the additional lighting detail in them, great job CCP. Keep it up!
Verite Rendition
F.R.E.E. Explorer
#35 - 2013-05-08 12:40:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Verite Rendition
I am greatly disappointed you removed the turret hardpoint on the Phoenix. Between the lack of drones and now the lack of a turret hardpoint, you can't go mining in a Phoenix anymore. And far to sound facetious, as the owner of one of the handful of high-sec dreads in the game, mining is one of the few ludicrous activities you can do with such a ship.

There's a reason they're called Veldnoughts.Sad
CCP Salvo
C C P
C C P Alliance
#36 - 2013-05-08 13:40:36 UTC
Raze Zindonas wrote:
Orca is so damn dark. Why did you change it?


I took a look at the Orca. It seems that the V3 process on it had stalled, and thus it was incomplete. I've corrected the error and it should be fixed for the Odessy release.

Panhead4411 wrote:
But alas, CCP feels that they know best, and i have yet to notice even a single occurrence of them taking player feedback on the 'art' side and actually making a change...moreso when the typical response to feedback to anything under the art departments realm is "Art is not seeking feedback on this..." So i'm not hopeful for any change in this pattern of darker and darker hulls. I mean, it is 'spreasheets in space' anyways, so why should we really care if we can actually see our ships in the first place?


Feedback is always welcome. We look at as much of it as we can, and though we do not always respond it every request / bit of feedback, you can rest assured that we hear you. The darkening of the hulls is a rather complex problem, which is tied to the lighting system in EVE. As it stands at the moment, and how it's been since EVE released, a lot of the "light" on the ship is the reflection of the nebula. With the introduction of more black space into the nebula backgrounds, things tend to go darker. If you reflect black, you're gonna get black. Yes, we could compensate for that now by readjusting the shader values to make ships brighter, but that is a lot of work, and we wouldn't even be halfway through that before we can start implementing our new lighting system, at which point we'd have to do all that work again. The range between our brightest and darkest nebula also makes compensating using the shader settings very difficult, as what works in one doesn't always work for all.

With only the stations and other world objects left to undergo the V3 treatment, the lighting system will be getting the love it needs very soon.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#37 - 2013-05-08 14:06:11 UTC
Pushing a lot of these changes to Retribution 1.2 almost makes it seem like there's less to be excited for for Odyssey.
Albeit they're still quite nice. I'm just wondering if you felt compelled to push some things to TQ to help ease player complaints over the long downtime over a DUST expansion deployment. :P

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Rose Hips
Zero Dot Zero
#38 - 2013-05-08 14:26:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Rose Hips
CCP Salvo wrote:
Raze Zindonas wrote:
Orca is so damn dark. Why did you change it?


I took a look at the Orca. It seems that the V3 process on it had stalled, and thus it was incomplete. I've corrected the error and it should be fixed for the Odessy release.

Panhead4411 wrote:
But alas, CCP feels that they know best, and i have yet to notice even a single occurrence of them taking player feedback on the 'art' side and actually making a change...moreso when the typical response to feedback to anything under the art departments realm is "Art is not seeking feedback on this..." So i'm not hopeful for any change in this pattern of darker and darker hulls. I mean, it is 'spreasheets in space' anyways, so why should we really care if we can actually see our ships in the first place?


Feedback is always welcome. We look at as much of it as we can, and though we do not always respond it every request / bit of feedback, you can rest assured that we hear you. The darkening of the hulls is a rather complex problem, which is tied to the lighting system in EVE. As it stands at the moment, and how it's been since EVE released, a lot of the "light" on the ship is the reflection of the nebula. With the introduction of more black space into the nebula backgrounds, things tend to go darker. If you reflect black, you're gonna get black. Yes, we could compensate for that now by readjusting the shader values to make ships brighter, but that is a lot of work, and we wouldn't even be halfway through that before we can start implementing our new lighting system, at which point we'd have to do all that work again. The range between our brightest and darkest nebula also makes compensating using the shader settings very difficult, as what works in one doesn't always work for all.

With only the stations and other world objects left to undergo the V3 treatment, the lighting system will be getting the love it needs very soon.



*** PLEASE *** post some 'concept' pictures of what the new lighting system would do. This would go a long way in satisfying us and instill some patience in us as well. We can wait... but what is it we are waiting for with this new lighting system???

EDIT: P.S. You better make our Amarr ships golden again, or Jamyl is going to go inside your brain and make you believe you are naked to everyone and have a tattooed tramp stamp on your backs. She's been known to do worse!!!!

Forum signature removed by Empress Jamyl as instructed by the Jove

Bow down before the one you serve; you're going to get what you deserve

Max Singularity is the way, the light, the Harbinger of Faith and true hope for New Eden!
Fluffman
Pulling The Plug
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#39 - 2013-05-08 15:14:34 UTC
I am having FPS issues more than anything else, jerky screen, Had a constant no drop 59 fps before the patch running 2 clients, now with both open I get a max of 50 and drops to 40-45 when I undock, haven't done anything in a fleet yet but the fact I can't even ship spin smoothy tells me i will have issues.

I'm running 2 gtx470s 1250mb of memory each in SLI
Quad core I7 @4.4 ghz, 16gb ram.

I have downloaded the most recent nvidia update, I'll try and roll back the drivers, if that doesn't work do I really to spend another 500 quid to get new card/s?


P.sAlso want Golden Amarr ships back please : )

other than that fantastic patch love the new graphics, although people in my corp don't!
spydersplace
Interplanetary Corporate Conglomerate
#40 - 2013-05-08 18:49:09 UTC
Looking at the Phoenix blueprint now...don't see any change. Patch Note says no more turret!!
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