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Mystery solved. Why stealthbombers and torpedo's/missiles suck. AND proving CCP doesnt know Geom

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Lhucian Dark
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-05-07 13:45:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Lhucian Dark
i posted this already on battleclinic, so im going to copy/paste my slander... yep thats right, im spreading thisBig smile
without further bs here ya go Big smile

"the stealther bomber doesnt suck.
(this could also be placed in the griefing section (towards ccp) but i felt this would get more hits.)

okay, look at the ammo again.... yes yes, i know, we've all been over it.

assuming the reader knows how torps/missiles works... lets continue. if you dont, just get the he** outta here and go learn something then come back :P.



this is the answer.
a 775m RADIUS ( <--- keyword) is NOT DESIGNED TO HIT 775m long ships.

period. end of :censored: ing story. CCP cant read javascript:insertsmileyBig smile or do math. or understand the difference between RADIUS AND DIAMETER. Oops


so that stated. a Rage Torpedo is only.... designed to hit ships with full dmg that are 1550 in length.

that stated... what kind of :censored: ing ships are 1550 in length? and tell me why the hell a stealth bomber is suppose to go after that sh**? <-rofl.Shocked


now look at the Javelin Torpedo. 450 radius. so designed to do Full dmg to a non moving ship that is 900m or higher in length.

the "small" torpedo cant even do full dmg to a :censored: ing battleship ROFL!!
example. scorpion = 828m long


that said. the "prey of choice" is either a carrier.... (stop laughing) using Rage torps

or a battleship that is not too short.... (okay laugh now.)



Read more: http://forum.battleclinic.com/index.php/topic,176033.0/Mystery-Solved-why-stealthbomers-suck.html#ixzz2Sc6Hm1aR


stealth bombers were never designed (dont give me that working as intended crap) or intended to take on carriers (using rage torps) or larg-ER battleships.....

"oh well the reason your dps sux is- youve been shooting at scorpions and battlecruisers and cruisers... they are far too tiny.... for a torpedo...."

CCP plz do not tell me that is your "working as intended excuse" because your admiting. stealth bombers are suppose to be hunting carriers with rage torps?

now that i am done making my point. plz fix this, as the confusion of RADIUS and DIAMETER was not taken into consideration.

because i expect people to be stupid, here is a 2-dimensional graphic example.


<------------X---------->
x equals the center, < or > equals the edge of the radius.... for this example im going to use a 775m radius Rage Torpedo.
<----------X---------->
now tell me what ship would be that range, or barely xtend over that range.
ohh... a 1550 ship is just as long as......
<----------X----------> (this is a 755m radius explosion)
X---------------------X (this is a 1550m long ship)


any questions?
Lhucian Dark
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2 - 2013-05-07 13:51:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Lhucian Dark
does CCP have any openings for geometry teachers? cuz i know this kid in the 5th grade who's got his circles down!!

He's some 1337 sh**.
one day, if he works hard. he can be a cashier ......
Lhucian Dark
State War Academy
Caldari State
#3 - 2013-05-07 13:53:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Lhucian Dark
seriously, unf**k this plz.


you just made a mockery of every sci-fi geek, math geek and AND! got away with it cuz everyone was duped into thinking "radius" had something to do with diameter... sure if you x2 it.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#4 - 2013-05-07 13:56:51 UTC
not sure if trolling...

I should buy an Ishtar.
dethleffs
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#5 - 2013-05-07 13:56:58 UTC
hey look, somebody is discussing stuff with himself.

ill get out of your personal notepad now
Lhucian Dark
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6 - 2013-05-07 13:59:05 UTC
dethleffs wrote:
hey look, somebody is discussing stuff with himself.

ill get out of your personal notepad now

i needed someone intelligent to talk to.
now shut up. stop interrupting me when i talk to myself.
Leopold Caine
Stillwater Corporation
#7 - 2013-05-07 14:02:36 UTC
Signature radii have nothing to do with ship lengths or ship geometry;

for example, the sig radius of an Apoc is 400m, yet the ship is 1570m in length.
Yet the sig radius of an Abaddon is 470m, and the ship is shorter than the Apoc, at only 1243m in length.

Raven is on the other side of the fence, it gets a whooping 460m sig radius, yet is only 730m in length.

3/10 though, nice attempt.
  • Leopold Caine, Domination Malakim

Angels are never far...

Stillwater Corporation Recruitment Open - Angel Cartel Bloc
Lhucian Dark
State War Academy
Caldari State
#8 - 2013-05-07 14:05:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Lhucian Dark
Daniel Plain wrote:
not sure if trolling...

your not sure because you think 2dimensionally. so allow me to boringly point out the obvious.




okay, trolling happens alot on the internet right? yes.
was this trolling? no.
reason: let me give you an analogy....



you served in your countries military, and you wanted to protect your people. after you were in a few years. you just learned your people have little (also as in amount of people also) respect for you.

now you realize you were tricked.
yep you guessed it! the correct word.... Disgruntled. (plz google this... it basicly means being ticked off, "for a good reason")

remember when your mommy/daddy hit you? was he trolling you? no, he was ticked off for a good reason.



*btw, im like the god of trolling, i only hunt trolls*
Hakaimono
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2013-05-07 14:06:15 UTC
It wouldn't be scifi without pi.
Unit757
North Point
#10 - 2013-05-07 14:06:33 UTC
Not sure if trolling, but whatever

You do know that the explosion radius looks at the ships signature radius, not the actual length of the ship, right?
Lhucian Dark
State War Academy
Caldari State
#11 - 2013-05-07 14:09:05 UTC
Unit757 wrote:
Not sure if trolling, but whatever

You do know that the explosion radius looks at the ships signature radius, not the actual length of the ship, right?



its suppose to, yes.
no it doesnt, however.


length of ship was tested.
as it is, my point still stands even with signature radius. reason.



it just got worse.
445m sig radius ship wont even take full dmg from a javelin torp. (the small one.)

however, explosive radius i dont believe actually interacts with the sig radius.
Lhucian Dark
State War Academy
Caldari State
#12 - 2013-05-07 14:17:36 UTC
Unit757 wrote:
Not sure if trolling, but whatever

You do know that the explosion radius looks at the ships signature radius, not the actual length of the ship, right?



however, i will give you the benefit of the doubt, Using maelstrom for example as the target.


1484 ship length, with a 460m sig radius. or a scorp
828 ship lenght, with a 480 sig radius.

a 450m Javenlin torpedo will NOT do full dmg to a scorpion of 828 ship length. it just wont. and the sig radius is bigger than the maelstrom. that stated, the small ammo, is designed to hunt battleships that arent too small. which is most, if not all, (i cannot ever, nor will, say for certain i claim to know ccp's math, but i can tell when its wrong. as we all can. sense we're on the receiving end of the blow.)

and that means a Rage torpedo is designed to hit 2 things. capital ships, and large structures. with a defense equivalent to a potato chip
Tashima
Clandestine Services
#13 - 2013-05-07 14:25:25 UTC
Lhucian Dark wrote:
Daniel Plain wrote:
not sure if trolling...


okay, trolling happens alot on the internet right? yes.
was this trolling? no.

You do understand that if one have to either come across as a troll or a complete tool, any normal person would rather be the troll, right?

Unless you're actually trolling when you say you're not a troll... so I guess.. just disregard my point.
Lhucian Dark
State War Academy
Caldari State
#14 - 2013-05-07 14:25:58 UTC
Lhucian Dark wrote:
Unit757 wrote:
Not sure if trolling, but whatever

You do know that the explosion radius looks at the ships signature radius, not the actual length of the ship, right?



however, i will give you the benefit of the doubt, Using maelstrom for example as the target.


1484 ship length, with a 460m sig radius. or a scorp
828 ship lenght, with a 480 sig radius.

a 450m Javenlin torpedo will NOT do full dmg to a scorpion of 828 ship length. it just wont. and the sig radius is bigger than the maelstrom. that stated, the small ammo, is designed to hunt battleships that arent too small. which is most, if not all, (i cannot ever, nor will, say for certain i claim to know ccp's math, but i can tell when its wrong. as we all can. sense we're on the receiving end of the blow.)

and that means a Rage torpedo is designed to hit 2 things. capital ships, and large structures. with a defense equivalent to a potato chip


this is also "if" your target is not moving, its bad enough the explosion velocity is also wrongly calculated. er let me reword this.
the compensation skills for explosion velocity and signature do not mitigate it for a moving target, for example a 50% web combined with a skill of either target painting 50% (just for ***** and grins..) or guided missile precision, which doesnt effect torps cuz its dumbfire, does not. exceed the targets size to stay in range of the explosion long enough.

the math on the whole thing is horrible.
Lhucian Dark
State War Academy
Caldari State
#15 - 2013-05-07 14:27:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Lhucian Dark
Tashima wrote:
Lhucian Dark wrote:
Daniel Plain wrote:
not sure if trolling...


okay, trolling happens alot on the internet right? yes.
was this trolling? no.

You do understand that if one have to either come across as a troll or a complete tool, any normal person would rather be the troll, right?

Unless you're actually trolling when you say you're not a troll... so I guess.. just disregard my point.

you know how i know your a teenager (now im trolling)

cuz you think life has 2 options.

sorry son its more complicated than that,

"ill tell you when your older." - your mom
Lhucian Dark
State War Academy
Caldari State
#16 - 2013-05-07 14:28:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Lhucian Dark
Quote:
Not sure if trolling, but whatever

You do know that the explosion radius looks at the ships signature radius, not the actual length of the ship, right?



all tests, must be tested slowly, and 1 step at a time. first do all no-motion tests. change the size of the ships.
compare radius to ship length. (explosive radius doesnt seem to care about how easy the targetable object is to target... it cares if it can blow it up.)

signature radius does not play by the same rules as explosive radius. i promise you. if it did then youd actually have to wait till a few moments after impact to find out how much dmg you hit for lol.....




to be precise you would have to wait this long=

61m per second at a radius of 755.
just to find out how much dmg you did to the ship that was "fully" in range of the explosion. its not calculated correctly because its "erupitive dmg" the dmg increases from the zero point to the outer edge (if torp fits completely in the ship.) subtracted from how far the ship is outside of the zero point (moving target calculation here, but one step at a time.)
Unit757
North Point
#17 - 2013-05-07 14:36:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Unit757
Lhucian Dark wrote:
Lhucian Dark wrote:
Unit757 wrote:
Not sure if trolling, but whatever

You do know that the explosion radius looks at the ships signature radius, not the actual length of the ship, right?



however, i will give you the benefit of the doubt, Using maelstrom for example as the target.


1484 ship length, with a 460m sig radius. or a scorp
828 ship lenght, with a 480 sig radius.

a 450m Javenlin torpedo will NOT do full dmg to a scorpion of 828 ship length. it just wont. and the sig radius is bigger than the maelstrom. that stated, the small ammo, is designed to hunt battleships that arent too small. which is most, if not all, (i cannot ever, nor will, say for certain i claim to know ccp's math, but i can tell when its wrong. as we all can. sense we're on the receiving end of the blow.)

and that means a Rage torpedo is designed to hit 2 things. capital ships, and large structures. with a defense equivalent to a potato chip


this is also "if" your target is not moving, its bad enough the explosion velocity is also wrongly calculated. er let me reword this.
the compensation skills for explosion velocity and signature do not mitigate it for a moving target, for example a 50% web combined with a skill of either target painting 50% (just for ***** and grins..) or guided missile precision, which doesnt effect torps cuz its dumbfire, does not. exceed the targets size to stay in range of the explosion long enough.

the math on the whole thing is horrible.



All missile skills effect all missiles, this was changed.

Javelin with max skills has something like 337m exp. rad., and 103 exp. vel. Fit a web, problem solved.


Edit - Are you on something?
Lhucian Dark
State War Academy
Caldari State
#18 - 2013-05-07 14:40:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Lhucian Dark
Quote:
to be precise you would have to wait this long=

61m per second at a radius of 755.
just to find out how much dmg you did."




now, does that jive with your cup of tea?


hullo mcfly the dmg is instant. it doesnt play by the same rules. meaning we're all wrong. so we calculate what we "know" to be fact.


are you telling me if.... 4 seconds after the carrier was hit by ... say 10dmg... it magically took 2 more dmg because it slowed down and the timer of the explosion was still going? plz stfu lol, SIGNATURE RADIUS IS BROKE FOR MISSILE COMBAT LOL

do you get the point yet.
Meditril
Hoplite Brigade
Ushra'Khan
#19 - 2013-05-07 14:41:49 UTC
1. StealthBombers are great when shooting BC and upwards.
2. Signature Radius has nothing to do with the ships geometry size. It is just an artificial number saying how "large" the ships signature is on the "radar" screen.
3. Train Missile Precision skills they reduce signature of your Torps by 25%.
4. If still not enough, install Target Painters on your ship.
5. Stop whining. And adapt. Torpedos are not intended to be used against frigates.
Unit757
North Point
#20 - 2013-05-07 14:42:02 UTC
You should probably go see a doctor
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