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Faction TEs post nerf
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Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2013-05-06 19:57:29 UTC
Are faction/officer TEs getting hit by the nerf bat as well?
Chris Winter
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#2 - 2013-05-06 20:03:49 UTC
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2013-05-06 20:13:33 UTC
I hate these TE changes... they're still keeping them such that minmatar autocannon basically get 2x the bonus that amarr/caldari lasers/rails get

I fear what this change will do to blasters as well.
CCP seems bound and determined to kill the shield tank blaster gank gallente boats..
Juicy Pop
Isolated Entropy
#4 - 2013-05-06 20:19:35 UTC
Verity Sovereign wrote:
I hate these TE changes... they're still keeping them such that minmatar autocannon basically get 2x the bonus that amarr/caldari lasers/rails get .


Why do people find it so hard to understand why this is necessary?
Battle BV Master
Bacon Never Dies
#5 - 2013-05-06 21:04:47 UTC
Juicy Pop wrote:
Verity Sovereign wrote:
I hate these TE changes... they're still keeping them such that minmatar autocannon basically get 2x the bonus that amarr/caldari lasers/rails get .


Why do people find it so hard to understand why this is necessary?



Cause they fly ships that benefit from them?
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#6 - 2013-05-06 21:10:15 UTC
Verity Sovereign wrote:
I hate these TE changes... they're still keeping them such that minmatar autocannon basically get 2x the bonus that amarr/caldari lasers/rails get

I fear what this change will do to blasters as well.
CCP seems bound and determined to kill the shield tank blaster gank gallente boats..


I'm actually pretty excited and have been stocking up for my Laser Pwnage Of Doom. Can't wait, really.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#7 - 2013-05-07 01:42:51 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Verity Sovereign wrote:
I hate these TE changes... they're still keeping them such that minmatar autocannon basically get 2x the bonus that amarr/caldari lasers/rails get

I fear what this change will do to blasters as well.
CCP seems bound and determined to kill the shield tank blaster gank gallente boats..


I'm actually pretty excited and have been stocking up for my Laser Pwnage Of Doom. Can't wait, really.

-Liang


Don't get your hopes up!

I'm going to continue hounding fozzie about a Scorch nerf! >=[

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#8 - 2013-05-07 01:56:16 UTC
Verity Sovereign wrote:
I hate these TE changes... they're still keeping them such that minmatar autocannon basically get 2x the bonus that amarr/caldari lasers/rails get

I fear what this change will do to blasters as well.
CCP seems bound and determined to kill the shield tank blaster gank gallente boats..

this is a talos nerf more than anything else, which is fine since the talos is stupidly OP.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2013-05-07 06:20:12 UTC
Juicy Pop wrote:
Verity Sovereign wrote:
I hate these TE changes... they're still keeping them such that minmatar autocannon basically get 2x the bonus that amarr/caldari lasers/rails get .


Why do people find it so hard to understand why this is necessary?


Right, because projectiles are so underpowered, that nobody would use them unless they got nearly twice the benefit from a modules that other weapons get... sure
Robert Lefcourt
BigPoppaMonkeys
E.B.O.L.A.
#10 - 2013-05-07 09:05:00 UTC
Verity Sovereign wrote:
I
CCP seems bound and determined to kill the shield tank blaster gank gallente boats..


Exactly :-(


Regards,

Rob
Robert Lefcourt
BigPoppaMonkeys
E.B.O.L.A.
#11 - 2013-05-07 09:06:58 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
Verity Sovereign wrote:
I hate these TE changes... they're still keeping them such that minmatar autocannon basically get 2x the bonus that amarr/caldari lasers/rails get

I fear what this change will do to blasters as well.
CCP seems bound and determined to kill the shield tank blaster gank gallente boats..

this is a talos nerf more than anything else, which is fine since the talos is stupidly OP.


You're aware of the fact that Attack BCs are nerfed separately? That's a double nerf for the Talos. I can't believe, it is worth flying afterwards.


Regards,

Rob
Hakaimono
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2013-05-07 15:06:15 UTC
Fly better then.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#13 - 2013-05-07 16:55:37 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
Verity Sovereign wrote:
I hate these TE changes... they're still keeping them such that minmatar autocannon basically get 2x the bonus that amarr/caldari lasers/rails get

I fear what this change will do to blasters as well.
CCP seems bound and determined to kill the shield tank blaster gank gallente boats..


I'm actually pretty excited and have been stocking up for my Laser Pwnage Of Doom. Can't wait, really.

-Liang


Don't get your hopes up!

I'm going to continue hounding fozzie about a Scorch nerf! >=[


Yes, I agree. Lasers should be completely ******* useless. While we're at it we need to nerf Barrage too. Anything that has more range than 10km is just OP.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Juicy Pop
Isolated Entropy
#14 - 2013-05-08 06:22:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Juicy Pop
Verity Sovereign wrote:
Juicy Pop wrote:
Verity Sovereign wrote:
I hate these TE changes... they're still keeping them such that minmatar autocannon basically get 2x the bonus that amarr/caldari lasers/rails get .


Why do people find it so hard to understand why this is necessary?


Right, because projectiles are so underpowered, that nobody would use them unless they got nearly twice the benefit from a modules that other weapons get... sure


The more you post, the more of your ignorance of basic game mechanics shows.

ACs are always in falloff. A bonus to optimal plays quite differently for such systems versus those that stick in their optimal.
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2013-05-08 06:34:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Verity Sovereign
Yes, always in falloff.... so if they normally are at 70% falloff at 5km with negligible optimal, and you double their falloff, then they're in 70% falloff at 10km -> range doubled
If a laser/rail is pretty much always at optimal with negligible falloff, and you double its optimal -> range doubled.

Projectiles get a much larger range increase than other weapon types.

It doesn't matter if most of that range comes from optimal, or falloff...

Unless you are arguing that projectiles are underpowered sans TEs


Furthermore, if most fights are within optimal, projectiles see an even greater bonus.
Going from 100% of optimal to 50% of optimal means 0 increase in applied DPS (such as if you're using scorch)
Meanwhile going from 100% of falloff, to 50% of falloff, (given that max range is at 200% falloff), the applied DPS increase is significant. (such as when using barrage)

TEs benefit projectiles much more than any other weapon system, and they are keeping the much greater boost to projectiles, while nerfing the module as a whole, and this is what annoys me
Juicy Pop
Isolated Entropy
#16 - 2013-05-08 06:40:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Juicy Pop
Verity Sovereign wrote:
Yes, always in falloff.... so if they normally are at 70% falloff at 5km with negligible optimal, and you double their falloff, then they're in 70% falloff at 10km -> range doubled
If a laser/rail is pretty much always at optimal with negligible falloff, and you double its optimal -> range doubled.

Projectiles get a much larger range increase than other weapon types.

It doesn't matter if most of that range comes from optimal, or falloff...

Unless you are arguing that projectiles are underpowered sans TEs


Do you just not know that you are doing decreased damage in falloff? That is what it seems like to me.
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
#17 - 2013-05-08 06:47:07 UTC
TEs with no bonus to Falloff were considered underpowered. They were buffed, adding the same optimal as ever and double that in falloff. Now they're overpowered... So I'm also not sure why reducing the falloff bonus alone wouldn't be viable.

The reasons for the changes proposed are very much in the form of close range weapon systems, Shield gank blasters and hyper-long range ACs. Both of these systems benefit more from falloff than optimal.

So if the problems come in the form of the falloff bonus and the optimal bonus was considered underpowered, wouldn't reducing the falloff bonus to equal the optimal be a better place to start?
Juicy Pop
Isolated Entropy
#18 - 2013-05-08 06:55:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Juicy Pop
Jacob Holland wrote:
TEs with no bonus to Falloff were considered underpowered. They were buffed, adding the same optimal as ever and double that in falloff. Now they're overpowered... So I'm also not sure why reducing the falloff bonus alone wouldn't be viable.

The reasons for the changes proposed are very much in the form of close range weapon systems, Shield gank blasters and hyper-long range ACs. Both of these systems benefit more from falloff than optimal.

So if the problems come in the form of the falloff bonus and the optimal bonus was considered underpowered, wouldn't reducing the falloff bonus to equal the optimal be a better place to start?


Sure, go ahead and do this. Beware, though, that if it does not come prepackaged with tweaks for falloff platforms, you will be throwing a fair number of hulls over the proverbial cliff.
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
#19 - 2013-05-08 07:32:05 UTC
Which hulls?
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#20 - 2013-05-08 08:29:32 UTC
Verity Sovereign wrote:
Yes, always in falloff.... so if they normally are at 70% falloff at 5km with negligible optimal, and you double their falloff, then they're in 70% falloff at 10km -> range doubled
If a laser/rail is pretty much always at optimal with negligible falloff, and you double its optimal -> range doubled.

Projectiles get a much larger range increase than other weapon types.

It doesn't matter if most of that range comes from optimal, or falloff...

Unless you are arguing that projectiles are underpowered sans TEs


Furthermore, if most fights are within optimal, projectiles see an even greater bonus.
Going from 100% of optimal to 50% of optimal means 0 increase in applied DPS (such as if you're using scorch)
Meanwhile going from 100% of falloff, to 50% of falloff, (given that max range is at 200% falloff), the applied DPS increase is significant. (such as when using barrage)

TEs benefit projectiles much more than any other weapon system, and they are keeping the much greater boost to projectiles, while nerfing the module as a whole, and this is what annoys me


TEs are meant to benefit projectiles more - the problem was not the slant towards projectiles, since hybrids and lasers can use tracking computers and thus have alternative fits, it was just the raw stat amount of autocannon huge falloff x TE's huge falloff figure.
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