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Blaster & Fittings requirements are not only the inherent problem with Gallente
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EL TITAN
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1 - 2011-11-02 16:12:10 UTC
First off – thank you ccp for concentrating efforts on FIS! You are floating my boat again.

Let’s get to business.

I appreciate your efforts in “re-balancing” Gallente and their associated Weapon systems. However, the information obtained so far does not address every aspect of a fix, I (and some others) think is needed.

Fleet / small fleet combat

While part of the problem is fitting requirements, damage, speed and tracking – the missing piece of the puzzle is the ship bonus. Gallente ships (at BC level) focus on local repair rate (Myrmidon & Brutix) while others (Caldari) focus on EHP AND DAMAGE (Whilst also having range to boast!!). And as all of know EHP + Damage + Range plays a significant part of being viable for fleet operations.

Minmitar have excellent instant burst damage at range (Hurricane) – although as a negative their local EHP keeps this ship balanced.

Amarr – The harbinger does not boast a local buffer bonus – however it can fit a substantial buffer while also dishing out plenty of damage at range (scorch ftw)

If the new stats are somewhat accurate – this means Gallente have “another” glass cannon without the ability to fit a buffer fleet ship at BC level!

Conclusion – I don’t believe Gallente ships at BC level will be viable for medium size fleets taking into consideration the leaked upgrade stats.

At solo or very small operations i believe Gallente will be at home – although this thread is not about the viability of solo pvp! – if you get my drift.

TLDR – Look at Gallente BC level ship bonus to, and please consider a resistance / buffer change from local repair amount.

Thank you

EL TITAN
Dirk Magnum
Spearhead Endeavors
#2 - 2011-11-02 16:23:48 UTC
Not every ship is meant for every scenario. The fact that the Gallente ships across the board *may* be the weakest in the fleet scenarios described is irrelevant, and means simply that people need to stop uni-speccing ship races if they have a problem with it.

                      "LIVE FAST DIE." - traditional Minmatar ethos [citation needed]
Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#3 - 2011-11-02 16:34:56 UTC
Let's not forget the Drones Gallente ships such as Dominix, Myrmidon, Brutix and Megathron class can carry, compared to the other race ships of the same class.

I don't expect Gallente ships will change much more than what CCP has already hinted at.

One can always hope for more though.

COO - Bene Gesserit Chapterhouse  CEO - Sanctuary Pact Alliance
Dax Redding
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#4 - 2011-11-02 17:14:19 UTC
Make the Rokh a usable ship.
THAT IS ALL I ASK OF YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Possibly, keep the Rokh as a sniper.
Then release a NAVY ROKH as a blaster boat.

THIS IS MY DREAM!
tika te
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2011-11-02 17:54:43 UTC  |  Edited by: tika te
tbh my thoughts about "the fix" are pretty the same.
on paper blasters look good.
in eve's everyday pvp/fleet action things look quite different. here dmg+range are king...
rails are looking quite good with upcoming changes, blasters however still dissapoint...
more tracking is the absolute minimum of ballancing required. now they need at least 30% more range, abnd blasterhulls need ALOT more speed.
hyperion still wil have the mobility of wet cloth...

looking down on fleet warfare gallente have the worst ships out there:
drones simply can't compete in fleets, so dronesboats are mostly useless.
balsters have by far inferior range, so theyre usless.

railguns *could* be a sollution aganin, but there are not that many hulls usable as gunboat in gallente repertoire...megathron mostly. on cruiser/bc level..brutix perhaps, but againg the active repair "penalty"-bonus cant compete witn passive bonuses from amarr/caldari.

ccp should firt realize some vital points:
1. extreme short range weapons need extremely fast and agile hulls (and vice versa)
2. drones are mostly useless and not practicable in fleet engagements. eve is a team game in this spot and gallente hulls are not teamplayer-friendly at all; consider that!
3. 10m/s more base speed comes down to roughly about 70-90m/s (?) more speed with mwd...not that much of a improvement on blaster hulls...
4. for using active repair bonuses u FIRST have to fit a repairer (cpu/pg need), SECOND they need alot cap to operate and THIRD, again, active tanking is not the gameplay style in fleet engagements; compared to that passive bonuses kick in no matter what you fit..
mkint
#6 - 2011-11-02 18:22:28 UTC
Dirk Magnum wrote:
Not every ship is meant for every scenario. The fact that the Gallente ships across the board *may* be the weakest in the fleet scenarios described is irrelevant, and means simply that people need to stop uni-speccing ship races if they have a problem with it.

See, that's a problem. What you say applies to T2 ships, but every T1 ship should compete fairly equally against other equivalent T1 ships. The T2 ships are specialists, the T1's are (should be) generalists. T3's are specializing generalists. I'm not saying T1's should out-compete T2's in their specialty, but they should compare favorably to OTHER T1's.

That said, I've been of the belief that an upgrade to drone mechanics would do a lot to "fix" Gallente.
-Particularly, add long range drones (like sentry drones) that could move with the launching ship. Thus, they would bolster the firepower (especially at sub-sniper ranges), allow the launching ship to remain mobile (and thus get into blaster range), and help to plug the range gaps.
-Add some special settings to make those drones more useful, such as "auto-launch/auto-recall" and add icons for them to the shortcut drawer (allowing them to be controlled with f-keys like any other weapon systems.) In other words, allow drones to behave more similarly to other weapon systems.
-Add drone grouping, just like weapon grouping, which would help reduce server lag, and make the combat logs much easier to read (also would be required for adding drones to the shortcut drawer.)
-Finally, do the drone fixes that have been a long time coming. That includes improving the AI so they behave as expected, fixing issues with drones forgetting what they are supposed to be doing, and allowing us to see their health while in the bay.

Of course drone fixes won't help the boats with no drone bays, such as the Gallente version fo the new unreleased BCs which appears to be launching "broken" but they (along with the proposed hybrid fixes) would fix pretty much every other Gallente boat.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
EL TITAN
State War Academy
Caldari State
#7 - 2011-11-02 19:44:38 UTC
+ 1 mkint
sYnc Vir
Wolfsbrigade
Ghost Legion.
#8 - 2011-11-02 20:44:00 UTC
There is nothing at all wrong with the ships from the gals that using them in the right place wont fix.

If they suck in fleet fights then why are you bringing them?

Fact is the get the rep bonus which gears them to small gangs, and solo. Use them for this use something else for fleets. If you only fly Gal ships then embrace the cross train. I hear minnie ships are nice.

On the topic of ships like the Brutix and Mega, I always thought their role was to burn in at speed sit at opt and unlease the dogs of war. Also just wanna say opt is not 0, number of people I've had in a fleet who burn to 0 then wonder why their damage is not getting put on.

Don't ask about Italics, just tilt your head.
mkint
#9 - 2011-11-02 20:46:37 UTC  |  Edited by: mkint
sYnc Vir wrote:
There is nothing at all wrong with the ships from the gals that using them in the right place wont fix.

If they suck in fleet fights then why are you bringing them?

Fact is the get the rep bonus which gears them to small gangs, and solo. Use them for this use something else for fleets. If you only fly Gal ships then embrace the cross train. I hear minnie ships are nice.

On the topic of ships like the Brutix and Mega, I always thought their role was to burn in at speed sit at opt and unlease the dogs of war. Also just wanna say opt is not 0, number of people I've had in a fleet who burn to 0 then wonder why their damage is not getting put on.

*sigh* Text decoration makes your post invalid.

edit: I also because of your awful text decoration, I couldn't help but read your post as though it was in the voice of stuart.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
Cpt Fina
Perkone
Caldari State
#10 - 2011-11-02 20:55:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Cpt Fina
IMO, gallante should not be designed with fleet engagements in focus. Local repairs and close range damage application should both be testaments of what kind of role gallante ships should fill. Also – in their blaster balance blog CCP restated the need for blasters to be short ranged and not infringe on the other weaponsystems' roles.

Could the 50+ gang pvp people just quit trying to adjust gallente hulls to fit their playstyle. Train the races that are suppsed to excel at dealing instantaneous damage at medium range – because it's not supposed to be gallente.
Cpt Fina
Perkone
Caldari State
#11 - 2011-11-02 20:56:02 UTC
doublepost
Pattern Clarc
Citeregis
#12 - 2011-11-02 21:05:19 UTC
Rank Ships Kills
1 Hurricane 5542
2 Drake 5454
3 Abaddon 2772
4 Armageddon 1965
5 Dramiel 1470
6 Tempest 1252
7 Cynabal 1196
8 Zealot 1072
9 Sabre 978
10 Rapier 884
11 Tengu 832
12 Harbinger 782
13 Vagabond 768
14 Manticore 735
15 Scimitar 688
16 Nyx 681
17 Hound 634
18 Machariel 607
19 Rifter 593
20 Loki 592


Looks like people are following Dirk Magnum's advice to the letter.

Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado. Gallente - Pilot satisfaction