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Deep-Space probe scanning removed in Odyssey?

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Axloth Okiah
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2013-05-04 08:13:35 UTC
uhm, am I the only one who uses T2 probe launchers?

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Britta Nolen
Sama Guild
#22 - 2013-05-04 08:35:46 UTC
Axloth Okiah wrote:
uhm, am I the only one who uses T2 probe launchers?


No, your not. Also **** CCP for even considering such a change.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#23 - 2013-05-04 08:50:45 UTC
Axloth Okiah wrote:
uhm, am I the only one who uses T2 probe launchers?

since sisters are better, probably.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Britta Nolen
Sama Guild
#24 - 2013-05-04 09:00:41 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
Axloth Okiah wrote:
uhm, am I the only one who uses T2 probe launchers?

since sisters are better, probably.


oh damn, time to buy some now. learning new things everyday.
Robert Fish
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
#25 - 2013-05-04 10:34:28 UTC
I like numbers and DSP probes keep it as it is please.
Maggeridon Thoraz
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#26 - 2013-05-04 10:40:29 UTC
a bar is nice but , but yaeh , keep the percentage numbers
Nix Anteris
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
#27 - 2013-05-04 10:43:50 UTC
So I checked the video. The bars fill up "a percentage" of the way.

What's the problem here?

It'll take you 15 minutes (if that) to learn that "this full" is 5%, and "this full" is 2%

Still plenty of screen real-estate on the right hand side of the bar if the % is really required to be displayed.
Derath Ellecon
ATRAX.
Shadow Cartel
#28 - 2013-05-04 11:51:31 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
oh good, someone who thinks they know how to scan, my favorite :)

Lots of words Illustrating Jacks elitist attitude towards scanning.




I don't think I know how to scan. I do. In fact my 8 probe formation is one i based off, let's see, oh yea YOUR VIDEO.

And yea Jack, it is a pretty fast method to scan. But its not the fastest.

Protip. Just because someone doesn't use the same method as you, does not mean they don't know what they are doing.
Samuel Cole
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2013-05-04 15:48:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Samuel Cole
Jack Miton wrote:
a 40 sig system is about 8-10 min of work to ID all sigs and BM all WHs and if youre going to have all the K162s and the vast majority of outgoing WHs first 2min fairly easily since theyre the easiest to ID sigs.


I'm pretty fast at scanning, but not quite that fast. For the sake of argument, though, let's say that I could consistently scan down 40 sigs in 10 minutes.

Living in a high class wspace system, it's not uncommon for our route to kspace to be four or five systems deep, with several dead-end branches along the way. All in all, find a route to kspace typically requires scanning down seven or eight systems, and this needs to be done multiple times per day, as wormholes open and close.

That means that even if we're blazingly fast with our scanning, we're still putting in upwards of three hours of scanning time each day. Using the deep space probe method simplifies that significantly, and means that scanning down wormhole routes is part of my typical play session rather than the entirety of my typical play session.

It's not a perfect method - it will often cause you to miss wandering WHs because you're only looking for statics - but it's an excellent example of how learning more about the game can make you better at the game, which I view as a positive.
Space Wanderer
#30 - 2013-05-04 17:05:45 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
PS: im talking here about WH scanning. i realize that kspace plex runners use the DSP method way more than anyone in WHs for good reason. Sorry guys, but i really thing you should need to put at least some token effort into finding the plexes youre after.


Hearing this from somebody who doesn't even care about learning the scanning formula... Roll Yes, we know that you see as "cheating" any attempt to understand the system, and think that we all should only use headlong trial and error grinding. Blink

Anyway, I was at the fanfest and I saw the presentation too. I don't think the changes will make DSP as it is now useless, and even if they did, I think it wouldn't be too hard to tweak the procedure to still get decent readings, although a bit less accurate. Sure, you might have to learn a little bit to estimate the bar length, but I remember in apoc beta that people were screaming left and right "scanning is hard" when deviation was still not implemented...

Now, if they were changing the scanning mechanics themselves, for instance adding a very high fluctuation in signal strength for low sigs, I would be more worried, but from what they said in the round table there should be no such changes. I am pretty sure the changes to scanning will be pretty much cosmetics, despite the expansion be "exploration oriented". We'll just have to learn some new trick, that's all.

We are still very far froma real "scan is an art" technique. Currently it is just a procedure, and a well-studied one at that.
Aducat Ragnarson
Blootered Bastards
#31 - 2013-05-04 20:15:31 UTC
I am kind of wondering, in case they do not put in the percentage value, whether drawing lines on an old monitor, right over the scanning window to indicate where the 3%, 5% and 8% marks are, would be considered a bannable third party client modification.
Oxandrolone
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2013-05-04 20:27:10 UTC
This was raised with the devs at fanfest already, they know we want to keep %'s
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#33 - 2013-05-05 04:45:28 UTC
Samuel Cole wrote:
It's not a perfect method - it will often cause you to miss wandering WHs because you're only looking for statics - but it's an excellent example of how learning more about the game can make you better about the game, which I view as a positive.

it doesnt make you better, just lazier.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
MdZt
Defying Gravity
EM-B.A.S.H.
#34 - 2013-05-05 20:10:05 UTC
Aducat Ragnarson wrote:
MdZt wrote:
The method will not work with color bars because of the scale.
You wont' see the difference between 3%, 5% and 8% signal. Pixel hunting is bad! Numbers are good.

Considering that you can sort by scan strength you will most definitly be able to see the bands in the signature strenghts.

I messed up with the numbers. With DSP at 256AU the percents vary from 0.03% to 0.3%. With resolution of 1920x1200 the size of the scanner window is less then 500 pixels. So NO. You will NOT see the difference on the color-bar. All the results will fall between 0 pixels and 1 pixel.
wicho lee
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#35 - 2013-05-05 20:58:49 UTC
CCP, plz do not replace signal str readings with a bar that fills up. This will make probing slower because selective probing will be almost impossible. Don't break something that works! Unless the new bars show signal strength then thats fine..I love scanning and I'm glad you guys are adding to it, there just needs to be a way to differentiate sigs with a single scan that's the whole reason I trained for DSP probes...
Maggeridon Thoraz
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#36 - 2013-05-05 22:35:04 UTC
wicho lee wrote:
CCP, plz do not replace signal str readings with a bar that fills up. This will make probing slower because selective probing will be almost impossible. Don't break something that works! Unless the new bars show signal strength then thats fine..I love scanning and I'm glad you guys are adding to it, there just needs to be a way to differentiate sigs with a single scan that's the whole reason I trained for DSP probes...


true words said
Terrorfrodo
Interbus Universal
#37 - 2013-05-06 09:31:19 UTC
It's also very important that copy-pasting the scan results will still contain the numbers, even if they are only displayed as bars on screen.

.
Nometh Xergent
#38 - 2013-05-06 13:05:36 UTC
It would be wonderful if they could just add an option:
"Show %%%%%%%%%"

“I’ve always loathed the necessity of sleep. Like death, it puts even the most powerful men on their backs.”
Bloody Wench
#39 - 2013-05-06 13:23:46 UTC
MdZt wrote:
The method will not work with color bars because of the scale.
You wont' see the difference between 3%, 5% and 8% signal. Pixel hunting is bad! Numbers are good.



Pretty sure I can write a script to count pixels and output to an overlay.
Probably shouldn't say that out loud.

[u]**Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote: **[/u]  CCP should not only make local delayed in highsec, but they should also require one be undocked to use it. Then, even the local spammers have some skin in the game. Support a High Resolution Texture Pack
Innabiggahurry
Doomheim
#40 - 2013-05-06 18:19:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Innabiggahurry
Jack Miton wrote:
Samuel Cole wrote:
It's not a perfect method - it will often cause you to miss wandering WHs because you're only looking for statics - but it's an excellent example of how learning more about the game can make you better about the game, which I view as a positive.

it doesnt make you better, just lazier.

People who spend several hours a day playing a video game should not be calling other people "lazy." If you're looking for productive and hard working, log off and go do your chores.

CCP needs to fix scanning along with many other things to remove the needless complexity. What I want to know is why a 20k-year-in-the-future spaceship filled with incredible technology can't seem to do basic math without the pilot's direct intervention. At least they'll be adding probe formations; that is a step in the right direction.