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[Odyssey] Faction Navy Cruisers

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Akiyo Mayaki
Perkone
Caldari State
#641 - 2013-04-28 16:15:10 UTC
I like the Vexor Navy Issue changes.

No
Aglais
Ice-Storm
#642 - 2013-04-28 16:37:25 UTC
Chessur wrote:

Osprey navy issue: Again, fast, agile, and lost of versatility but it again has no DPS. It will be good for killing frigs with RLM. It fares slightly better as unlike the omen navy, it can at least sport a decent tank- but again it has anemic DPS.



Since when is ~410 DPS ignoring your two drones 'no DPS'? Do you ignore ships if you can't fit them to be 700+ DPS notank kill platforms? The new Navy Osprey is far, FAR more than just an RLM boat. Yes, it'll probably do well in that role, but here's the thing- with HAMs, it'll kite and spank almost every T1 cruiser, still. HMLs probably don't do much DPS anymore in general but I'm imagining that the navy osprey would be terrific at keeping maximum range against slower targets. It's an excellent skirmisher, exactly as the apparent lore behind it states. It's also got some solid tank potential too, which is solidly in line with Caldari design.
Chessur
Full Broadside
Deepwater Hooligans
#643 - 2013-04-28 21:40:24 UTC
Aglais wrote:
Chessur wrote:

Osprey navy issue: Again, fast, agile, and lost of versatility but it again has no DPS. It will be good for killing frigs with RLM. It fares slightly better as unlike the omen navy, it can at least sport a decent tank- but again it has anemic DPS.



Since when is ~410 DPS ignoring your two drones 'no DPS'? Do you ignore ships if you can't fit them to be 700+ DPS notank kill platforms? The new Navy Osprey is far, FAR more than just an RLM boat. Yes, it'll probably do well in that role, but here's the thing- with HAMs, it'll kite and spank almost every T1 cruiser, still. HMLs probably don't do much DPS anymore in general but I'm imagining that the navy osprey would be terrific at keeping maximum range against slower targets. It's an excellent skirmisher, exactly as the apparent lore behind it states. It's also got some solid tank potential too, which is solidly in line with Caldari design.



No. It does not get 410 DPS. Using 2bcs (i feel dropping a DCU for a 3rd BC is a waste) you are looking at (with perfect skills, 5% implants, and 2 warriors) 382 DPS with out heat. You can have a 2 LSE tank on this... which is decent but not amazing. But the thing with hams is- The applied dps is far different than the pretty number posted in EFT. Unless you are hard tackling the target- HAMs struggle to apply DPS. You can rectify this with throwing away all of your rigs, but then you are really cutting back on your tank. The last option (forgoing dual web and into brawl rage) is to fit dual TP. Doing this allows some possibility of kiting- but again you still have poor tank, and your capacitor will be a joke.

So please explain this to me. Why would i ever choose HAM's? RLM's can provide better applied dps at greater range while allowing a better tank.
Donedy
Lulzsec Space
#644 - 2013-04-29 12:02:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Donedy
FOZZIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE! DONT NERF MY FLABBERRRRRRRRRRRRR!
Quote:

  • With the last T1 cruiser buff SFI was not anymore OP compared to T1 cruisers hulls, according to the price of the hull of course (Its a navy, it has to be more powerfull than a regular T1 hull)
  • It is a Minmatarr hull, minmatarr line of ships was/is and should remain the more agile one. As its one of their racial characteristics. Even more in cruiser size.
  • As the other cruisers are buffed (im glad with that btw), why nerfing the SFI? Even more if as you said "its a small tweak and its no relevant to complain about." In this case WHY NERFING IT? Other ships will take his old role, thats all...


Edit : And no, i will not drop it!
John 1135
#645 - 2013-04-30 13:12:29 UTC
Quote:
Omen Navy Issue: Turning this ship into a much more mobile ship with an optimal bonus, much like a giant Slicer.
Cruiser skill bonuses:
10% bonus to Medium Energy Turret damage
10% bonus to Medium Energy Turret optimal range
Slot layout: 5(-1) H, 3 M, 7 L, 4(-1) turrets
Fittings: 965 PWG, 335 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1800(-416) / 2550(-463) / 2250(-428)
Shield Recharge Time: 1250s(-500s)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1650(+25) / 520s(+55.9s) / 3.17(-0.3)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 265(+73) / 0.43(-0.11) / 10850000(-800,000) / 6.47s(-2.25)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50(+25) / 50(+25)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 57.5km(+12.5) / 320(+27) / 7(-1)
Sensor strength: 17(+1) Radar
Signature radius: 100(-12)
Cargo capacity: 400(+150)


DPS reduced?
The extra optimal seems decent.
Why reduced shield recharge time on an armour tanked ship?
Heavily reduced HP (20% across the board?) in exchange for 10% lower sig and 25% better agility speed. Seems plausible.
Why more drones? Ship was better / more distinctive as a laser boat.
What is the point of the cap reduction? Cargo capacity increased so it can carry more booster charges? = -1 Mid?

I think the limp gun DPS will be a problem, and adding drones a poor way to balance that out. Would rather keep the fifth turret and lose the additional drones. In an ideal world would also lose the shield recharge, gain a tiny bit of cap to make up for the lost cap bonus on guns, and lose very slightly less armour.
Drago Shouna
Doomheim
#646 - 2013-04-30 14:20:49 UTC
I want the drone bay back on my Caracal Cry Carrying a couple of salvaging drones was great.

Solecist Project...." They refuse to play by the rules and laws of the game and use it as excuse ..." " They don't care about how you play as long as they get to play how they want."

Welcome to EVE.
Seolfor
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#647 - 2013-05-01 05:33:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Seolfor
If market prices are a measure of perceived popularity and hence perceived power:

'Combat' Navy Cruisers (Sell price, from ~1 month ago)

1. Augoror ~40M to ~80M [+100%]
2. Caracal ~48M to ~67M [+40%]
3. Vexor ~63M to ~84M [+33%]
4. Stabber ~50M to ~45M [-10%]

Comment: The Navy Aug and Vexor's frankly look very powerful. Imo a Neut/plated VNI will reign supreme. Navy Caracal with no utility high or drone bay just looks ripe for tacklers, especially with HAMs or HMLs. I think price/performance of the SFI remains the best despite the nerfs.

'Attack' Navy Cruisers (Sell price, from ~1 month ago)

1. Osprey ~35M to ~53M [+51%]
2. Exeq ~45M to ~67M [+49%]
3. Omen ~58M to ~73M [+26%]
4. Scythe ~35M to ~40M [+14%]

Comment: The cormorant-grade-agility, cruiser-sized-hookbill NOsprey is looking good. The Exeq gives stupid-levels of dps and has the speed, agility and mids to apply it, dont get caught. The Nomen is meh to me, but obviously the market believes otherwise, and as usual the the matari attack navy cruiser is heavily underestimated.

I know which ones im stockpiling. Lets see what the next month of SiSi testing does.

Im predicting pre-release downward tuning to Navy Aug, Vexor and Exeq.
Mojo Joo
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#648 - 2013-05-02 14:09:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Mojo Joo
Seolfor wrote:
...I think price/performance of the SFI remains the best despite the nerfs.

So SFI is the only faction cruiser who price drop and you believe that is still the best performance ship for his price. Or you want to say best price for his performance? Roll

Maybe i am wrong, and my common sense don't work so well like your, but it 's not looking like most people seems to have an opposite opinion?! Is not that price drop a clear lack of demand compared with all other faction cruisers? Shocked
So this ship is so powerfull that people don't want it anymore? Big smile

CCP make Omen navy issue agile like an minmatar ship; buff it's signature radius, agility and speed, and nerf the same characteristics on a minmatar ship, making ONI faster and more agile than SFI ! Make perfect sense, go forward bunch of... Ugh
Shade Alidiana
PROSPERO Corporation
#649 - 2013-05-02 14:46:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Shade Alidiana
Looks nice, although I expected more tank and/or fitting on navy caracal. And special thanks for navy scythe.

Edit6: and yes, the drones... They're nice little things, why won't 1-2 be on every ship?
Syrias Bizniz
some random local shitlords
#650 - 2013-05-02 19:23:50 UTC
In case you didn't know:

Amarr cruisers went up in price because Amarr FW is sitting at Tier 1 for like 1 month (or 2, or more) now, that's also the reason minmatar cruisers are dropping slightly in price over time.



Also,

Amarr Cruisers look underwhelming for solo / small gang action when compared to all the other choices available. However, once it gets into ranges of 20+ people in armor cruisers, i predict we will see a lot of NOmens doing very, very well.

SFI is strong now, will be strong after Odyssey hits, but the other navy cruisers will be strong, too. Looking forward to NOsprey, Scythe Fleet and NExequror.
Mojo Joo
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#651 - 2013-05-02 20:09:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Mojo Joo
Syrias Bizniz wrote:
In case you didn't know:

Amarr cruisers went up in price because Amarr FW is sitting at Tier 1 for like 1 month (or 2, or more) now, that's also the reason minmatar cruisers are dropping slightly in price over time.



Also,

Amarr Cruisers look underwhelming for solo / small gang action when compared to all the other choices available. However, once it gets into ranges of 20+ people in armor cruisers, i predict we will see a lot of NOmens doing very, very well.

SFI is strong now, will be strong after Odyssey hits, but the other navy cruisers will be strong, too. Looking forward to NOsprey, Scythe Fleet and NExequror.


So i guess your post is an answer to mine? What ships do you fly boy, and what game do you play? It's EVE? Really? Are you sure?

Before coming here and explain me how is very normal that an Amarr ship to be more fast and agile than his Minmatar counterpart, are you really sure you know anything about this game story? The races, etc?

Don't be to ashamed, it seems even CCP lost his original ideas too, about this game. We wait for armor Caldari ships, more and more fast and agile Amarr ships, maybe even shield tanked, missiles Gallente ships, and all things will be the great and very, very balanced in this game... a great homogeneous mixture of ships without any identity.
Syrias Bizniz
some random local shitlords
#652 - 2013-05-02 21:36:05 UTC
Mojo Joo wrote:
Syrias Bizniz wrote:
In case you didn't know:

Amarr cruisers went up in price because Amarr FW is sitting at Tier 1 for like 1 month (or 2, or more) now, that's also the reason minmatar cruisers are dropping slightly in price over time.



Also,

Amarr Cruisers look underwhelming for solo / small gang action when compared to all the other choices available. However, once it gets into ranges of 20+ people in armor cruisers, i predict we will see a lot of NOmens doing very, very well.

SFI is strong now, will be strong after Odyssey hits, but the other navy cruisers will be strong, too. Looking forward to NOsprey, Scythe Fleet and NExequror.


So i guess your post is an answer to mine? What ships do you fly boy, and what game do you play? It's EVE? Really? Are you sure?

Before coming here and explain me how is very normal that an Amarr ship to be more fast and agile than his Minmatar counterpart, are you really sure you know anything about this game story? The races, etc?

Don't be to ashamed, it seems even CCP lost his original ideas too, about this game. We wait for armor Caldari ships, more and more fast and agile Amarr ships, maybe even shield tanked, missiles Gallente ships, and all things will be the great and very, very balanced in this game... a great homogeneous mixture of ships without any identity.




People like you are the reason i like reading the threads with announced balance changes. It's always amusing to see people rant about their beloved fotm ship being 'nerfed' or brought in line with other ships.
If you had any grasp of the game itself, you would just keep your mouth shut, let everyone rant who wants, and start getting used to the fact that you will fly Scythe Fleet Issues in the future a lot, and that you will love them, and that you will rarely look back at the SFI.
Shade Alidiana
PROSPERO Corporation
#653 - 2013-05-03 06:36:49 UTC
Mojo Joo wrote:

Don't be to ashamed, it seems even CCP lost his original ideas too, about this game. We wait for armor Caldari ships, more and more fast and agile Amarr ships, maybe even shield tanked, missiles Gallente ships, and all things will be the great and very, very balanced in this game... a great homogeneous mixture of ships without any identity.

This everything is already here.. Look at Falcon/Scorpion fits - they're armor;
Look at Curse - it's often shield-tanked... Deimos?..

Yes, I don't like what's happening, but that's the destiny of any balanced game. Yes, I hate balance. BTW that's why I don't play world of tanks... An almost perfectly balanced thing.
Mojo Joo
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#654 - 2013-05-03 07:15:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Mojo Joo
]
Syrias Bizniz wrote:
People like you are the reason i like reading the threads with announced balance changes. It's always amusing to see people rant about their beloved fotm ship being 'nerfed' or brought in line with other ships.
If you had any grasp of the game itself, you would just keep your mouth shut, let everyone rant who wants, and start getting used to the fact that you will fly Scythe Fleet Issues in the future a lot, and that you will love them, and that you will rarely look back at the SFI.


So you don't give a s... about what it's happening with this game, all you just want to see are griefed people... I recommend you then to go and watch "crime and punishment" thread where is full of rants and "delicious tears". There is a good place to let out your own repressed feelings and sufferance from RL

Indeed, here are posting people who care about their "beloved" ships and "their" beloved game, EVE. You say that you are here just from some weird and unhealthy desire to see people who suffer... but some of us are here, in this game because we really like it, we like EVE whole idea, EVE universe and we like playing this game.
And i think that purpose of this thread is that to get an feedback from people who like EVE, not to "harvest tears", OK?

Also i am sure that scope of the changes are not making people to not fly SFI anymore, and force them to fly in exchange some other ship... your statement just endorse my point of view, that SFI don't need to be nerfed in that way.

PS.
People, including me, will fly ONI most likely, not Scythe FI, because with that specifications ONI will be new "old SFI" Big smile
But that will not change the weirdness of situation, where we need to use an amarr ship to fly in minmatar style Ugh
Donedy
Lulzsec Space
#655 - 2013-05-03 10:14:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Donedy
Is that normal and intended that amarr navy cruisers looks to have like big capacitor issues?
Even more as each of them got only 3 medslots.
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#656 - 2013-05-03 10:20:38 UTC
Donedy wrote:
Is that normal and intended that amarr navy cruisers looks to have like big capacitor problems? Even more as they got only 3 medslots each of them.

Don't worry about it, cruisers are not alone in that so all is well Big smile

Amarr is Eve on Hard-mode. Our ships either have half the bonuses or 3-4 slots (gotta have CAP!) less than the other races .. it is as it should be. We have Scorch, it is enough ... hahahahahahaha
John 1135
#657 - 2013-05-03 12:46:14 UTC
Donedy wrote:
Is that normal and intended that amarr navy cruisers looks to have like big capacitor issues?
Even more as each of them got only 3 medslots.

Yes. That's normal and intended.
Ashina Sito
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#658 - 2013-05-04 08:49:22 UTC
Anika Ataru wrote:
NVex with two unbonused turrets.. Is it kind of bad joke or something? Can you at least solve it in similar way like with Dominix, by removing turret bonus (I don't like that, but if you insist..), whilst keeping turrets? Just make it more than two, two turrets without bonus are ridiculous.
It's like crippled Ishtar (I'm actually really worried about your plans with Ishtar now). Decent ship for PvE I guess, but I would rather keep my five goddamn turrets (even unbonused ones), instead of getting one stupid heavy drone. Those secondary drone bonuses, whilst marginally useful, aren't really worth it either.

Weird, after "Dominix without bonus, but still with turrets" rage, I would expect this thread to be upside down because of NVex without both, but so far, I see like three people complaining about it. I'm refusing to believe, that people have no use for those turrets, or NVex itself :(



I hear ya Sister!

I posted against the Navy Vexor changes. I realized though that CCP would not care about it. With how they abandoned their own design philosophy and bad the choices for the bonus changes it is clear they have an image of what they want it to do and you, I and we won't say anything to change CCP's mind. One upside is that they are leaving the Vexor alone.

There is an additional issue as well. The Navy Vexor is little used in PvP. As a PvE ship it will do fine.... sort of. It is a temporary ship to use while your waiting to train up to use an Ishtar. Now these changes on an Ishtar hull are awesome, for the Navy Vex it is just a sad day.
Syrias Bizniz
some random local shitlords
#659 - 2013-05-06 15:58:44 UTC
The NVex is going to be a very nice brawling cruiser, who's engagement profile is incredibly huge, basically everything from frig(gang)s to battleships.

I understand that you have a desire for the Vexor being able to bring out 500-600 dronedps and ontop of that go in with some nice blaster (or autocannon) pressure, but the way it is upcoming, it will be more about sustainability and ewar (Hello 1 med 3 small neuts, mwd, capbooster, scram, web, 1600mm or 800mm+MAAR and good tank/gank)
Rastor Galondil
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#660 - 2013-05-07 18:13:22 UTC
Why nerf the Stabber Fleet mass? Isn't speed and mobility suppose to be something that Minmatar excel at, then less mass with less armor? I don't even... 0.o? Then nerf it's already relatively low CPU? Seems a bit unfair. Looking forward to the Scythe tho. That's how most Minmatar ships should be, but that's just my opinion.