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Should aggression carry over past downtime?
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Setaceous
Nexus Prima
#21 - 2013-05-03 00:39:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Setaceous
Liang Nuren wrote:
Setaceous wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Cathleia wrote:
Just log on half an hour later and you've avoided the timer so it's pointless really.

I don't think you entirely understand.

Let's say someone has a full PVP timer when downtime happens. Upon downtime the ship will remain in space because it has a PVP timer. If downtime ends 10 minutes later which it sometimes does, then there's a five minute period where you can be scanned down (extremely easy if they knew where you were at downtime) and killed. If you log on half an hour later under these circumstances then chances are you'll find yourself in an alpha clone with an insurance payout.

So it simply requires people to ensure that they're safely docked before downtime. It's not like they don't have adequate warning that it's coming (unless there's some sort of server fault). Therefore, if they have an aggression timer and they get logged off in space, then it's entirely their own fault.


So... what about systems without stations?

-Liang

A: Tough luck.
B: Fly to another system.
C: All of the above.

EDIT: where I work (I'm an IT technician BTW) we have a saying that gets passed onto people all the time - Your lack of planning does not constitute an emergency.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#22 - 2013-05-03 00:46:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Liang Nuren
Setaceous wrote:

A: Tough luck.
B: Fly to another system.
C: All of the above.

EDIT: where I work (I'm an IT technician BTW) we have a saying that gets passed onto people all the time - Your lack of planning does not constitute an emergency.


It is easily demonstrable that there are many cases where your assertion that everyone should simply dock up is not feasible. Your lack of planning also does not constitute an emergency.

-Liang

Ed: Also, you probably don't want to get into a professional pissing contest with me. Lol

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Varius Xeral
Doomheim
#23 - 2013-05-03 00:47:15 UTC
Posting in a stealth nerf russians thread.

Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal
Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
#24 - 2013-05-03 00:51:14 UTC
I'm pretty sure this becomes a big issue once two things happen:

1. Downtime is reduced to 5 minutes or less.
2. People start abusing this mechanic to begin fights they cannot lose.

What we have now is mostly an occasional #2, which can be quite frustrating just like the old freighter log-offski trick (that got nerfed, I expect nothing less eventually).
Setaceous
Nexus Prima
#25 - 2013-05-03 00:52:47 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Setaceous wrote:

A: Tough luck.
B: Fly to another system.
C: All of the above.

EDIT: where I work (I'm an IT technician BTW) we have a saying that gets passed onto people all the time - Your lack of planning does not constitute an emergency.


It is easily demonstrable that there are many cases where your assertion that everyone should simply dock up is not feasible. Your lack of planning also does not constitute an emergency.

-Liang

Ed: Also, you probably don't want to get into a professional pissing contest with me. Lol

To be fair, isn't that part of EvE - all actions have consequences? Good or bad, I enjoy the fact that this game doesn't try and hold your hand and give you a lollipop to let you know everything is fine. If you get a lollipop in this game it's because you blew something up to get it Big smile
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#26 - 2013-05-03 00:54:23 UTC
Setaceous wrote:

To be fair, isn't that part of EvE - all actions have consequences? Good or bad, I enjoy the fact that this game doesn't try and hold your hand and give you a lollipop to let you know everything is fine. If you get a lollipop in this game it's because you blew something up to get it Big smile


On the flip side you're demanding a lollipop because you logged in after downtime first. Stop trying to make the game hold your hand.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Setaceous
Nexus Prima
#27 - 2013-05-03 00:58:03 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Setaceous wrote:

To be fair, isn't that part of EvE - all actions have consequences? Good or bad, I enjoy the fact that this game doesn't try and hold your hand and give you a lollipop to let you know everything is fine. If you get a lollipop in this game it's because you blew something up to get it Big smile


On the flip side you're demanding a lollipop because you logged in after downtime first. Stop trying to make the game hold your hand.

-Liang

Yay for me P
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#28 - 2013-05-03 01:01:43 UTC
Hell of a cop out after pulling an appeal to your IT-authoritah and telling me about actions and consequences and lollipops and tough luck and all that ****...

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2013-05-03 01:02:10 UTC
It's not that simple though, because on the flipside are people who will take advantage of that to use downtime for their own safety.

Let's say someone has to move a titan from one system to another, but he can't do it because the enemy knows he plans to move and has prepared a fleet to take him out. However, downtime is approaching. The pilot could choose to jump just before downtime so that his enemy doesn't have enough time to take him out, and then after downtime log a scouting character into that system to ensure that the enemy leaves before he logs the titan character in again.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Setaceous
Nexus Prima
#30 - 2013-05-03 01:06:21 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Hell of a cop out after pulling an appeal to your IT-authoritah and telling me about actions and consequences and lollipops and tough luck and all that ****...

-Liang

Well lunch is over so I can't dedicate much time to this, another important lesson - never start something that you don't have time to finish. I concede Cry
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#31 - 2013-05-03 01:10:34 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
It's not that simple though, because on the flipside are people who will take advantage of that to use downtime for their own safety.

Let's say someone has to move a titan from one system to another, but he can't do it because the enemy knows he plans to move and has prepared a fleet to take him out. However, downtime is approaching. The pilot could choose to jump just before downtime so that his enemy doesn't have enough time to take him out, and then after downtime log a scouting character into that system to ensure that the enemy leaves before he logs the titan character in again.


I don't see what this has to do with aggression timers. Even if you guys managed to get aggression before downtime, the downtime may last more than 15 minutes. So I guess what you're really wanting is for all the aggression timers to be paused during downtime?

I guess the question is whether you think it's better to have a hole where someone can move a ship or where hundreds of people per day get force logged out and log back in to a pod and an alpha clone?

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
TheNewestTwin
Subsidy H.R.S.
Xagenic Freymvork
#32 - 2013-05-03 01:10:41 UTC
No.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#33 - 2013-05-03 01:59:34 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Liang Nuren wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
It's not that simple though, because on the flipside are people who will take advantage of that to use downtime for their own safety.

Let's say someone has to move a titan from one system to another, but he can't do it because the enemy knows he plans to move and has prepared a fleet to take him out. However, downtime is approaching. The pilot could choose to jump just before downtime so that his enemy doesn't have enough time to take him out, and then after downtime log a scouting character into that system to ensure that the enemy leaves before he logs the titan character in again.


I don't see what this has to do with aggression timers. Even if you guys managed to get aggression before downtime, the downtime may last more than 15 minutes. So I guess what you're really wanting is for all the aggression timers to be paused during downtime?

I guess the question is whether you think it's better to have a hole where someone can move a ship or where hundreds of people per day get force logged out and log back in to a pod and an alpha clone?

-Liang

No, what I'm asking for is no downtime at all, but since that's obviously impractical we might as well just deal with what we have now.
I wasn't even replying to you actually but I forgot who it was since I started writing it and came back to it later.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#34 - 2013-05-03 04:05:14 UTC
Well, no down time at all would obviously be superior - but that seems somewhat unlikely from a practical perspective. ;-)

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#35 - 2013-05-03 05:08:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Il Feytid
@ Liang

I'm assuming you are looking out for the little guy, which is fine. How do you feel about super capitals abusing this? Are you OK with super capitals engaging in combat with 100% impunity? What if aggression carrying over past downtime only applied to super capitals?
Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere
Coalition of the Unfortunate
#36 - 2013-05-03 07:22:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Sentient Blade
I'm perfectly fine with SOLAR dropping half a dozen titans and doomsdaying the **** out of a slowcat fleet 30 seconds before downtime.

I watched the video, it was epic.

But from a game design perspective it's a no-brainer. DT is DT is DT and a person should not be obligated to stop everything they're doing for an hour or more just in case DT lasts longer than expected.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#37 - 2013-05-03 14:42:34 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
@ Liang

I'm assuming you are looking out for the little guy, which is fine. How do you feel about super capitals abusing this? Are you OK with super capitals engaging in combat with 100% impunity? What if aggression carrying over past downtime only applied to super capitals?


Breaking the game for the 99% to fix the 1% is just ********. So yes, I'm fine with super caps abusing this just as I'm fine with losing 100mn Tengu killmails.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#38 - 2013-05-03 18:02:30 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
@ Liang

I'm assuming you are looking out for the little guy, which is fine. How do you feel about super capitals abusing this? Are you OK with super capitals engaging in combat with 100% impunity? What if aggression carrying over past downtime only applied to super capitals?


Breaking the game for the 99% to fix the 1% is just ********. So yes, I'm fine with super caps abusing this just as I'm fine with losing 100mn Tengu killmails.

-Liang

Did you even read what I wrote? Lol
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#39 - 2013-05-03 18:08:04 UTC
I did, and I answered it.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
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