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Can someone be mentally handicapped and not notice it or be noticed for it?

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Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2013-05-02 10:26:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Reaver Glitterstim
Zimmy Zeta wrote:
You want to change your present life, not having some weirdo who wants to talk you into believing that all of your problems stem from subconscious oedipal conflicts in your early childhood (blah blah blah...).
Actually I'd rather the latter. People have endless ideas for me to conform to, and I couldn't if I wanted to. That's why I want explanations of myself, which nobody else seems able to provide. I feel if I can understand myself better, I can come up with my own solutions. But I wish it were easier. I wish I just had one mental condition that I could look up on Wikipedia and read about myself. I wish I could find a support group for people like me. Maybe if I can identify what it means to be like me, then I can find people like me.

Gotta go to bed. Talk to you tomorrow probably!

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."

Zimmy Zeta
Perkone
Caldari State
#22 - 2013-05-02 10:35:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Zimmy Zeta
It's a common misconception made popular by Hollywood movies that finding the cause of a psychiatric disorder will more or less immediately cure you of the sickness.
But it is about you, not me.
If you would trust an analyst more, then so be it.
Trust is more important than the actual therapy technique.

I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it. Yes, I do feel bad about it.

Halete
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2013-05-02 10:42:23 UTC
I've got to agree with Zimmy.

Getting to the root of your issues can be nice. Some people have to justify the way they are. But it isn't a solution to get your life back on track.

Psychoanalysis is a crock of ******* ****. Absolutely the worst branch of psychology. My opinion.

Having worked with many people in situations such as yours, my experience is that self-discovery very rarely ever allows people to form their own solutions.

Behavioral therapy will allow you to take control of your life and move towards where you want to be.

"To know the true path, but yet, to never follow it. That is possibly the gravest sin" - The Scriptures, Book of Missions 13:21

Brujo Loco
Brujeria Teologica
#24 - 2013-05-02 12:46:08 UTC
Currently looking for a thread I posted a couple years ago to someone in the forums, don´t remember, that was having this "Super Self-Awareness" moment and was asking, in more or less the same terms, what you are asking.

To be specific, people with mental disabilities that don´t know they have them are the norm, so yes, regarding your question.

Fact is, in my line of work, one of the first DSM related "bullet points" to look for in certain areas of thought are exactly that, unawareness of condition which can lead me to a better causeway of analysis to further refine diagnosis.

This condition is usually detected the moment it begins to seriously deteriorate personal relationships, work and normal social behavior, but some people live with them perhaps all their life and not realizing they are "handicapped" as you put it.

Most of them end up in a specialized medical facility without them even knowing why they are there. Many more spend their lives in solitude or in unhealthy environments, further degrading their well-being.

The bare minimum for social acceptance and work efficiency in most countries can be boiled (jokingly of course) down to not going out naked, not killing people in cold blood as soon you go out into the street and be able to at least order your meal in a fast food joint, rest is a bonus, so yep, lots of mentally ill people out there.

"Certificates of Normalcy" as I usually joke around, are usually given only inside the Psych Wards Big smile

Now, regarding your incredible abilities of projecting thought, having several lines of thinking, physical resistance, pain or fear responses to situations, whatever they may be, and I am including some you might not have said but I throw in the lot for ease of reference, are perceptions that YOU have of well ... YOU.

People in your close social circle telling you DO have INDEED these abilities(if anyone near you is willing to support you on this) , are to be a bit blunt, but straight to the point, similar to you thinking you can sing extremely well and a group of friends telling you, yep, you are like the new Elvis Presley born to Rock the World again because your voice is awesome in the shower.

I don´t want to sound mean, or condescending, and I apologize if this "sounds" like that, but what I am trying to explain in TEXT is, well, fellow capsuleer, your super powers are non existant, your physical and mental abilities will usually fall within common constraints proper to your gender, nationality, genetic stock and social upbringing, no more no less.

Unless there is a standardized battery of tests taken on you to measure your cognitive skills (for example) , at least from my side of the Scientific branches studying human behavior (Psychology) I can assure you, you are , more or less, a common person.

Like almost everybody else in the world.

Now in regard to your self perceived physical abilities, I cannot comment but I am inclined, using the incredible powers of statistics and "guesswork" that you are probably also normal.

If you feel inclined to disregard everything I said, I would happily tell you, as an alternative, to go to a certified counselor and mental health specialist and telling him/her these exact feelings.

He will help you way more than a random stranger off the internet in a spaceship pew pew game forum, but It is my moral and ethical duty to tell you this and disregard any advice on these forums that doesn´t lead you to proper counseling in the hands of a professional.

Also no, I´m not saying you are crazy, or anything like that either btw, and Mental Health therapist are NOT for "insane" people.

Doubts regarding your life, feelings, relationships and general thoughts are better channeled with these kind of workers, myself included, in proper environments suited to this type of actions.

I hope you have a happy day and I wish you and your house blessings.

o/

Inner Sayings of BrujoLoco: http://eve-files.com/sig/brujoloco

Indahmawar Fazmarai
#25 - 2013-05-02 12:56:33 UTC
Halete wrote:
I've got to agree with Zimmy.

Getting to the root of your issues can be nice. Some people have to justify the way they are. But it isn't a solution to get your life back on track.

Psychoanalysis is a crock of ******* ****. Absolutely the worst branch of psychology. My opinion.

Having worked with many people in situations such as yours, my experience is that self-discovery very rarely ever allows people to form their own solutions.

Behavioral therapy will allow you to take control of your life and move towards where you want to be.


Totally agree on the effectiveness of BT. It's neither fast nor cheap, but it does the job in providing you with the tools you need to understand what's going on with your mind and manage it (not control, but manage) through your conscious actions.
Brujo Loco
Brujeria Teologica
#26 - 2013-05-02 13:01:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Brujo Loco
Zimmy Zeta wrote:
It's a common misconception made popular by Hollywood movies that finding the cause of a psychiatric disorder will more or less immediately cure you of the sickness.
But it is about you, not me.
If you would trust an analyst more, then so be it.
Trust is more important than the actual therapy technique.


I believe the root problem with people as you put it, is finding a "cure" as if a "disease" existed.

"Normalcy" is in my own experience, non existant, and all we have is a common sense of socially accepted neuroses we call "proper behavior" that is heavily modified by cultural taboos and close environment rules.

That´s why I told OP to look for a counselor. He is not sick, he is simply as I have seen others point out here along the thread, curious about his self-perceived image and place within the world that surrounds him. That doesn´t make him special or above or below the norm, and the way he describes himself , besides being quite explicit is nothing that puts him, in my eyes, as someone different.

It also rises my curiosity why you and others seem to have a personal grudge against Psychiatry and from what I can infer (perhaps erroneously ) Psychology. Big smile

Seems people here are a bit adamant about it.

Inner Sayings of BrujoLoco: http://eve-files.com/sig/brujoloco

Brujo Loco
Brujeria Teologica
#27 - 2013-05-02 13:17:10 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Halete wrote:
I've got to agree with Zimmy.

Getting to the root of your issues can be nice. Some people have to justify the way they are. But it isn't a solution to get your life back on track.

Psychoanalysis is a crock of ******* ****. Absolutely the worst branch of psychology. My opinion.

Having worked with many people in situations such as yours, my experience is that self-discovery very rarely ever allows people to form their own solutions.

Behavioral therapy will allow you to take control of your life and move towards where you want to be.


Totally agree on the effectiveness of BT. It's neither fast nor cheap, but it does the job in providing you with the tools you need to understand what's going on with your mind and manage it (not control, but manage) through your conscious actions.



Interestingly, I believe the branches derived from BT , included in the umbrella term "behaviorists" are usually the most expedited forms of therapy in regards to short term, tangible gains for the client.

Though not my field I find it extremely good to tackle with "PLEASE HELP ME NAO WITH THIS" issues.

Psychoanalisis is well, one of the most interesting fields of study, and I happen to have a colleague , extremely bright and wonderful woman that has devoted her entire career to Lacanian Therapy, so bright she even had a scholarship to study directly in Paris. Wonderful structure Lacanian Theraphy has, almost a pure french work of Art in mental processing.

To say it is a crock of ********************* I find it a bit demeaning and a blatant generalization of a process that is simply overtly bastardized in media.

I , perhaps risking the ire of others, will dare to assume you are perhaps from the US? Psychoanalysis there is quite the diff monster from the Psychoanalysis from Lacan for example, a strong school that has quite a diff setup and methodology to the common conception people seem to have with more traditional forms of Psychoanalysis, and even then, those are highly unknown by the population in general since there seems to be a lot of misconceptions.

But it is good that you expressed it as your opinion. I invite you to try different forms of therapy, and yes, even I have to agree with you that Psychoanalysis is a bit convoluted and not for everyone but disregarding those fields of work as crap just tickles me a bit, to be honest Big smile

Inner Sayings of BrujoLoco: http://eve-files.com/sig/brujoloco

Indahmawar Fazmarai
#28 - 2013-05-02 13:23:14 UTC
Brujo Loco wrote:
Zimmy Zeta wrote:
It's a common misconception made popular by Hollywood movies that finding the cause of a psychiatric disorder will more or less immediately cure you of the sickness.
But it is about you, not me.
If you would trust an analyst more, then so be it.
Trust is more important than the actual therapy technique.


I believe the root problem with people as you put it, is finding a "cure" as if a "disease" existed.

"Normalcy" is in my own experience, non existant, and all we have is a common sense of socially accepted neuroses we call "proper behavior" that is heavily modified by cultural taboos and close environment rules.

That´s why I told OP to look for a counselor. He is not sick, he is simply as I have seen others point out here along the thread, curious about his self-perceived image and place within the world that surrounds him. That doesn´t make him special or above or below the norm, and the way he describes himself , besides being quite explicit is nothing that puts him, in my eyes, as someone different.

It also rises my curiosity why you and others seem to have a personal grudge against Psychiatry and from what I can infer (perhaps erroneously ) Psychology. Big smile

Seems people here are a bit adamant about it.


Well, psychology is a matter where people often holds strong pesonal opinions, often based on their experience... it's a bit like sexuality, religion or politics, it touches people very deeply and nobody likes being opposed on matters that tie so much to identity.

So far, at least psychology still is a minor topic an most people doesn't haves an opinion about it, unless their circunstances forced them... but the those opinions can be very strong.
Zimmy Zeta
Perkone
Caldari State
#29 - 2013-05-02 13:27:11 UTC
Brujo Loco wrote:

It also rises my curiosity why you and others seem to have a personal grudge against Psychiatry and from what I can infer (perhaps erroneously ) Psychology. Big smile

Seems people here are a bit adamant about it.


Since I work as a psychiatrist (although my focus is opioid addiction treatment) I guess that your perception is a little off, Brujo P

I am being diplomatic, using the principles of Carl Rogers. Never tell your patients: "No, I don't believe you, you are no special snowflake, statistics are not on your side."
If you want your patients/ customers to behave in a special way (like visiting a counselor / therapist in this case) you should show that you take their observations serious as well as their doubts and fears. Many people are afraid of psychiatry, so it is important to address that fear and allow the patient to be open about it.
Nobody wants to lose his face in public; it is about creating bridges for the customers to feel accepted and appreciated and decide to accept outside help (seemingly) of his own volition, so it is no longer a sign of weakness or insufficiency.

I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it. Yes, I do feel bad about it.

Pr1ncess Alia
Doomheim
#30 - 2013-05-02 13:38:00 UTC
Can someone be mentally handicapped and not notice it or be noticed for it?


I believe this is referred to as 'The Human Condition'
Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
#31 - 2013-05-02 15:16:42 UTC
OP, I'd recommend that you read Aquamarine Blue 5: Personal Stories Of College Students With Autism by Dawn Prince-Hughes. With that recommendation, I'm not all suggesting that you're on the autistic spectrum. But what you said about not knowing when to interrupt to get into the flow of the conversation-- some of the mildly-autistic people interviewed in the book said the same thing. I'm the same way, so it was interesting to me to read these people's perspectives.

Just want to say, thinking differently than other people do isn't necessarily a handicap. If everybody thought like "normal" people, the norm would just always persist. It took somebody a little bit different to invent a flint spearhead, or conceive of the pyramids, develop Newtonian physics and the theory of relativity, or become the Buddha. Smile
Zimmy Zeta
Perkone
Caldari State
#32 - 2013-05-02 15:35:20 UTC
Khergit Deserters wrote:
OP, I'd recommend that you read Aquamarine Blue 5: Personal Stories Of College Students With Autism by Dawn Prince-Hughes. With that recommendation, I'm not all suggesting that you're on the autistic spectrum. But what you said about not knowing when to interrupt to get into the flow of the conversation-- some of the mildly-autistic people interviewed in the book said the same thing. I'm the same way, so it was interesting to me to read these people's perspectives.

Just want to say, thinking differently than other people do isn't necessarily a handicap. If everybody thought like "normal" people, the norm would just always persist. It took somebody a little bit different to invent a flint spearhead, or conceive of the pyramids, develop Newtonian physics and the theory of relativity, or become the Buddha. Smile


Don't forget Tesla.
That guy never had a girlfriend and was in love with a dove.
And his inventions changed the world forever.

I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it. Yes, I do feel bad about it.

silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#33 - 2013-05-02 15:45:44 UTC
My sister was 47 before she realized shis was an Aspie. Then she looked aroudn and realized that all four of her children were, too.

They function extremely well, including the one who is unbelievably rigid in his outlook. Good coping skills learned from dealing with other portions of our rather bizarre family, and a husband/father who is completely brilliant at inter-personal relationships, mean that they've got very litte to change in the way they work with the world. Now they simply know why they're different.

Myself, I'm probably a bit bi-polar, and have anxiety issues. Didn't stop me from having a successful military career, or holding down a demanding and technical job. Once I learned to seek out the things that spoke to my personal issues, I found that I could make a happy living exploiting those issues to my own benefit.

Zimmy Zeta wrote:

Intelligence helps, but is not required.
Effort and connections are essential.
Socialize, apply, bring yourself in, find what you are good at and what you want to do- or find someone to tell you what to do.

Read this again.^
Especially the part I 'bolded.'

Apply the above to your life like was a promise of salvation, and you will do well. I don't care if you're neuro-typical or not, those are core instructions for success.

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc

Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2013-05-02 17:37:03 UTC
Brujo Loco wrote:
I don´t want to sound mean, or condescending, and I apologize if this "sounds" like that, but what I am trying to explain in TEXT is, well, fellow capsuleer, your super powers are non existant, your physical and mental abilities will usually fall within common constraints proper to your gender, nationality, genetic stock and social upbringing, no more no less.
I agree with you, but I don't recall claiming I had any super powers. I do have an unusually high tolerance for pain but that is a product of both my upbringing and the way I responded to it. I don't feel that anything I have said about me is particularly unbelievable.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."

Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#35 - 2013-05-02 20:31:33 UTC
Dyspraxia

Its a low order disability, but it does impact regular day to day routines/life in general

some aspects are easy to work around
but I will never ever learn to drive, its just not safe for the other people out there.
NightCrawler 85
Phoibe Enterprises
#36 - 2013-05-02 21:10:15 UTC
I will admit i found this thread very interesting.
First off to the OP.. I admire the fact that you are secure enough in your..well in game persona.. to post such details about your self, especially if you question weather or not your thoughts are normal regarding certain things/subjects.
I will admit that a couple of the things you said created sort of a "Omg thats such a good way to put it!" and you have shown some brutal honesty about your self and who you are.

But i dont think you have to worry about being "insane" or mentally challenged. At least not from my perspective. Is it "healthy" to read into things to the extent you do? Maybe not..it can be mentally exhausting and wreck you if your not careful and dont allow your self to take a step back and just...let your mind reset once in a while.

For those saying stop playing EVE... Come on... The guy shows no signs of being a danger to him self or others. If anything he has more insight about him self then others and he allows him self to ACCEPT that he has these feelings and thoughts and dont let them handicap him to the point where he cant do anything on his own.

For the pain thing... This is a much more complicated one. For all i know you can have been on medication that has numbed down your sense of pain, or you simply just have a higher tolerance for pain, or its something mentally that makes the pain feel "less" to you. There are so many options and nothing that can be pinpointed.

The only thing i can see that some would point out as an issue is your self doubt, because this might tie into why you can not find the motivation to work. Its not just that you dont feel there is anything you can/want to do that is meaningful, but the horror of trying and fail which leads to even more self doubt. But of course when you dont try you end up feeling even worse and its almost like... a bad never ending circle and the longer you go the more dizzy you get basically Smile
Honestly, i would suggest that maybe you try and do some volunteer work since this will take away the fear of not finding something (everyone loves volunteers), and you can leave whenever you want, while at the same time help give you some sense of...purpose beyond your self.
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#37 - 2013-05-02 21:42:19 UTC
NightCrawler 85 wrote:

Honestly, i would suggest that maybe you try and do some volunteer work since this will take away the fear of not finding something (everyone loves volunteers), and you can leave whenever you want, while at the same time help give you some sense of...purpose beyond your self.

Also excellent advice. Cool

I volunteer at a Border Collie rescue. Nothing like dealing with the needs of creatures that are utterly dependant, and are incredibly grateful for my services, to put my head in a good place. When I'm in a 'down' swing, or feeling particularly rootless and anxious, I make a point to go down to The Farm and scrub kennels for a few hours, or whatever else needs to be done. It works wonders for my self esteem and peace of mind.

Needn't be dogs - It can be anything you please, so long as you can find a place to put your hand on the cart and give it a shove.

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc

Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2013-05-03 00:14:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Reaver Glitterstim
Thanks so much for all of the responses everyone. It's really nice to get alternate perspectives on this.

Also, I've been wanting to clarify a couple of things throughout this:

  • Don't bother patronizing me. I prefer bluntness, and you won't hurt my feelings.
  • Having a handicap or disability does not necessarily prevent someone from something; they may just have to find another way around it. Sometimes finding another way is actually very easy and most people don't think of it because they don't have to.

So go ahead and talk about my handicap(s) but please keep in mind that the best advice (and what I find most pleasant) is that which gives me more insight and options, and advice from your experience; not telling me that I should seek to change something built into me, and not assuming that adjusting my life to be more normal/common will make me happier.

I fear psychotherapy because I have been raised to believe that it is centered around trying to force-normalize people who aren't normal and aren't comfortable with normal--that it ignores their problems and teaches them to pretend they are normal so that the people around them are more comfortable. And I think to some degree that is true--it is definitely a way that people tend to react to other people's differences. It is ethnocentric but it is natural for us humans. The history of psychotherapy is riddled with heart-wrenching tales of abnormal people being forced into horrifically uncomfortable conformative lifestyles, often resulting in these people killing themselves or others. I know that the disciplines within psychotherapy have advanced a lot since then, and people are much more aware now of that ethnocentrism which was clouding their judgement so strongly--but I don't know how much better it is. I am both very trusting that there is a psychiatrist somewhere who can help or understand me, and terrified to get psychiatric help because of the aforementioned. And the worst part about it is that it's expensive, and I don't get to try it first and pay later. I might blow a year's savings on one therapy session only to turn around and leave the office before I get myself in prison for showing the therapist what I think of his little horror business.

P.S.: I don't fear using my main to talk about this. I don't understand why people are so bent on putting up a façade and hiding behind it, though it probably has a lot to do with people's natural inclination to judge the façades of others. I just wish we could all be open about our true selves, and not judge each other for things we didn't choose.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."

silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#39 - 2013-05-03 02:42:37 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:


I fear psychotherapy because I have been raised to believe that it is centered around trying to force-normalize people who aren't normal and aren't comfortable with normal...
Can't speak to psychotherapy, but the assistance of a clinical social worker can work wonders. Ask your personal physician for a steer to a list of suitable CSWs. Tell him or her bluntly what you're looking for, what you want to work on, what your concerns and worries are. That will help your doc to narrow the list. Interview the CSWs - you are, in effect, hiring them.
But once you've hired one, let them help. Which means listening with an open mind. CSWs, in my experience are mostly about helping you cope with, or at least understand, your obstacles. They don't want to fix you, they want to get you to a place where you can handle your own business.

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc

NightCrawler 85
Phoibe Enterprises
#40 - 2013-05-03 02:44:11 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:

P.S.: I don't fear using my main to talk about this. I don't understand why people are so bent on putting up a façade and hiding behind it, though it probably has a lot to do with people's natural inclination to judge the façades of others. I just wish we could all be open about our true selves, and not judge each other for things we didn't choose.


In many cultures having any sort of mental disorder is almost a...gah what do you call it in english... taboo and is very shameful to talk about or even admit. Besides its human nature to judge others, everyone does it weather or not they "know" it.

This makes subjects like these even harder to talk about because it IS something people can easly judge someone on and for many mental disorders are...scary because they simply can not understand it.
Im guessing maybe because you hear "mental illness" and you think about what you hear in news and so on which is normally serial killers, rapists, cannibals and similar, which of course makes you shy away from anything that can have any resemblance to people like that.

Again please note that this is because many people simply do not understand that there is different levels of mental disorders, and not all or even most, are severe enough to lead to something drastic like what you hear in the news.

This is just my own guesses and conclusions based on many years of talking to people with mental disorders (not in any professional way) and seeing how people with mental disorders have been treated and portrayed by the rest of their community.



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