Ships & Modules

They offer versatility for the price.

I used to love flying a legion with a locus analyzer, covert reconfiguration and an interdiction nullifier with a sisters expanded probe launcher whilst being able to fit an analyzer and a codebreaker in hostile space (well - fitting ACs and later Blasters to it was key) when T3s were introduced.

That's an example of a ship thats's still enourmously economic and being extremely versatile whilst being impossible to catch unless the pilot is drunk to the point of passing out.

A fine example of what a T3 should be. However, it still takes a fraction of the time to train for all that than training for most of the T2 counterparts, so the 4-5 days to take a sub back to V are negligible unless you're really low on SP or manage to lose them on a regular basis (in which case you should see a doctor and have your genome checked).

They should, as a first step, nerf all T3s to the level of the Legion and then check how their usage develops.

They're changing SMA's to allow you to reconfig subs in space...

Also, 5 sub skills to V takes 20-25 days. For example, getting logi, HAC's, and Recon to V takes bloody forever in comparison. But by getting all subs to V (assuming they only buff the bad subs, and not nerf any) you'll get a ship that does all of that, AND BETTER for only 20-25 days... Oh, and the worst that happens, you spend 5 days reskilling to 5.

I agree they should be worth their cost compared to the T2 ships, but they shouldn't blow some of them clear out of the water. I like where the Legion is at as a HAC, though most of its other subs need an overhaul.

Because CCP claim that bigger shouldn't be better. Assuming bigger doesn't only refer to ship and gun size, but also wallet size and SP amount, T3s fall out of the line. It works too well when it comes to e.g. Frig/Cruiser/BC vs. BS balance.

I think I could kill most standard BS fits out in a current T1 frig, provided he's passive tanked and he doesn't have friends arrive in 10 minutes.

That's CCPs current balance approach and I'm fine with it (altough it makes me wonder why a BS costs more than a T1 frig despite taking longer to train - if anything they should be cheaper as a compensation for the longer training time at the current stage).




Hmm? Yes - that's what I (and Ytterbium) have been saying - they're still better at doing certain things T2 are supposed to do better because those are supposed to be more specialized. In most cases, they don't do them better, but equally good whilst providing a better tank, which is still renders them better in the end, so they're OP.





Seriuously, I cba to repeat all cases, but T3 vs CS is completeley out of the window atm (being looked at, but wont be close to being fixed unless OGB are removed, regardless off boosting percentages).

A T3 with lvl V skilled Electronics Subs takes less time to train for than a fully trained cov ops frig whilst offering the same bonus to probing, an additional rig slot for another gravity cap upgrade, thus offering a higher potential for probe strength and an easy oiption to train for bubble-immunity at the same time within a week and a buck.


And please, don't make me post all the interdiction nullified, fully probing bonused T3 prober OGB booster alts that outclass a cov op frigs and a CS at the same time whilst being covopa cloaked, immune to bubbles and at the Sig/Sensor Strength Sweet-Spot at the same time.

First off this is flat out wrong. Crunch the numbers. It takes less time to go from zero to covert ops frigate 5 than to just sit in a T3 with all subs at 1. And even then you wouldn't have any tank or fitting skills. you can get away with that on a covert ops frigate, but you will want something for a T3 cruiser. And the covert ops frigate will be more survivable in most instances.

T3 logi? Joke

Neut cloaky legion vs pilgrim? Legion will have a bigger tank but no DPS. And no range bonus on neuts.

Just a couple of examples.

Yeah, these 5 subs takes less time to train to V... if you have unlimited remaps.

Your logi/hac/recon and whathaveyou is on that convenient perception/willpower stat. You can just pop in one long skill, instead of babysitting 5 skills. Oh, and you don't lose it when you lose your boat.

Ever seen an ecm tengu? neut legion? How about rr loki? Oh that's right, they suck compared to t2, for 5-10 times the price, just like you wanted. That explains why nobody is using them. And your idea of "balanced" is make t3 tank and dps worse than t2 too?

These changes are needed:
1) Rise t2 prices to above these of corresponding t3s, t2 logi higher than t3 logi, etc, to reflect their relative usefulness.
2) You lose t2 skill lvl when your t2 pop.
3) T2 skill mapped to something other than perception/willpower.

No, silly, you'd bring a Curse.

Your PotatoSack will get left behind and be cracked open. And lol @ Bhaal, the entire region will come over and try to get on that km - OMG expensive boat KILL IT!

Btw, wouldn't you rather use a Legion?

I'd also add that armor T3s have another niche of T3 usage which is wormhole warfare where you need the best mass/effectiveness ratio due to WH mass restrictions. T3s provide the best one while still retaining decent punch per pilot (and still get blapped by supported Moros, so yeah).

Another thing worth mentioning since OP addressed that, T3 skills combined amount to rank 10 skill, which is pretty damn high for subcap hull.


You can refit subs without changing rigs, just saying.

I've seen a couple of ECM Tengus. Short ranged, but harder to kill than Falcons, etc.