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[Odyssey] Navy Battlecruisers

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Kaiden krios
Mangueireiros
#401 - 2013-04-27 13:18:34 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Kaiden krios wrote:
Sorry to say but, the Hurricane is just my old Hurricane, but more expensive... and with other colors... ...

and lots more EHP....


Still the same.
Kenshi Hanshin
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#402 - 2013-04-27 17:43:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Kenshi Hanshin
Ytterbium wrote:
DRAKE NAVY ISSUE:

Unwilling to imitate our dear friend Victor by creating a Drakenstein monster, the Navy version focuses on flexibility instead of improving the already good raw firepower and tank of the standard Drake. It has a 10% missile velocity and 5% missile explosion radius bonus per level, 8 launchers and improved mobility.

• Caldari Battlecruiser skill bonuses: +10% to heavy missile and heavy assault missile velocity and 5% bonus to explosion radius of heavy missile and heavy assault missile per level
• Slot layout: 8 H, 6 M, 4 L, 0 turrets, 8 launchers
• Fittings: 880 PWG, 550 CPU
• Defense (shields / shield recharge time (s) / armor / hull) : 7875 / 1800 / 4875 / 5625
• Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 2500 / 658 s / 3.8
• Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 150 / 0.64 / 13329000 / 11.8 s
• Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 25
• Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 60km / 195 / 8
• Sensor strength: 23 Gravimetric
• Signature radius: 295


Evelopedia wrote:
DRAKE Standard ISSUE (Pre-Odyssey):

• Caldari Battlecruiser skill bonuses: +5% Shield Resistance +5% Kinetic Dmg for HML and HAML per level
• Slot layout: 8 H, 6 M, 4 L, 0 turrets, 7 launchers
• Fittings: 850 PWG, 525 CPU
• Defense (shields / shield recharge time (s) / armor / hull) : 5469 / 1400 / 3906/ 3906
• Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 2812.5/ 750s / 3.75
• Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 140 / 0.628 / 14010000/ (?)
• Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 25
• Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 60km / 195 / 8
• Sensor strength: 19 Gravimetric
• Signature radius: 285


*Underlining added for emphasis

Did anyone manage to check that the loss of the +5% shield resistance was properly offset by the increase in shield strength? At least looking at the numbers it does not seem to.

Did anyone get a chance to test these against the other faction BCs? How did they perform?
Jonas Sukarala
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#403 - 2013-04-27 18:54:53 UTC
Kenshi Hanshin wrote:
Ytterbium wrote:
DRAKE NAVY ISSUE:

Unwilling to imitate our dear friend Victor by creating a Drakenstein monster, the Navy version focuses on flexibility instead of improving the already good raw firepower and tank of the standard Drake. It has a 10% missile velocity and 5% missile explosion radius bonus per level, 8 launchers and improved mobility.

• Caldari Battlecruiser skill bonuses: +10% to heavy missile and heavy assault missile velocity and 5% bonus to explosion radius of heavy missile and heavy assault missile per level
• Slot layout: 8 H, 6 M, 4 L, 0 turrets, 8 launchers
• Fittings: 880 PWG, 550 CPU
• Defense (shields / shield recharge time (s) / armor / hull) : 7875 / 1800 / 4875 / 5625
• Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 2500 / 658 s / 3.8
• Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 150 / 0.64 / 13329000 / 11.8 s
• Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 25
• Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 60km / 195 / 8
• Sensor strength: 23 Gravimetric
• Signature radius: 295


Evelopedia wrote:
DRAKE Standard ISSUE (Pre-Odyssey):

• Caldari Battlecruiser skill bonuses: +5% Shield Resistance +5% Kinetic Dmg for HML and HAML per level
• Slot layout: 8 H, 6 M, 4 L, 0 turrets, 7 launchers
• Fittings: 850 PWG, 525 CPU
• Defense (shields / shield recharge time (s) / armor / hull) : 5469 / 1400 / 3906/ 3906
• Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 2812.5/ 750s / 3.75
• Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 140 / 0.628 / 14010000/ (?)
• Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 25
• Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 60km / 195 / 8
• Sensor strength: 19 Gravimetric
• Signature radius: 285


*Underlining added for emphasis

Did anyone manage to check that the loss of the +5% shield resistance was properly offset by the increase in shield strength? At least looking at the numbers it does not seem to.

Did anyone get a chance to test these against the other faction BCs? How did they perform?


2 things here you're showing the old drake before the bc rebalance ...lost a high .. lost a turret... it got 10% damage bonus
.. lost some tank.
Also it will lose some resists for odyssey ..

'Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line' CCP Ytterbium Nerf missile range into place where is the TD missile change?  ..projectiles should use capacitor. ABC's should be T2 HABC and nerf web strength its still too high

Chessur
Full Broadside
Deepwater Hooligans
#404 - 2013-04-28 02:35:57 UTC
So Navy BC's

Harb Navy Issue: This ship is amazing and I love what CCP has done with it. Shield fit this ship is sporting close to 700 DPS with scorch, out to 35K with a medium neut and decent EHP. This thing is a sex machine and I can't wait to fly it.

Drake Navy Issue: Huge tank..... and that's about it. RLM fit it doesn't have the range to really be usable with its speed / agility. HML's have been unusable since the nerf, as the drake has anemic DPS and application while using them. So HAM's again damage application is a huge issue. But it can be worked around because the drake has a few spare mids to give up. So in my view, the drake is now relegated to a pure HAM brawler. It will do this job the way it always has and be decent.

Brutix: Again an armor brawler or shield gank. That is all it will ever be. Talos is much better at Blaster kiting thanks to projection, and even with the tracking bonus- brutix with rails is still complete ****. If med rails were made better, it could have some use. But for the time being is currently 100% outclassed by the harb. A one dimensional role, but it will do that role well.'

Fleet Cane: So the old cane is back. The new TE nerfs severly neutor it from doing any significant kiting. But dual med neuts really can't be ignored. I am glad to see the cane back. But with the lack of projection, the shield cane is going to have a tight window of opportunity. But Its possible. Armor cane is going to be secksy as always.
Mole Guy
Bob's Bait and Tackle
#405 - 2013-04-28 05:12:49 UTC
umm..
why do all bc have the same 3.8 cap per second charge rate when we amarr ships have 3x the cap drain of our closest peeps?

we can run our burner, we can shoot our guns, but if u turn the captains coffee pot on, itll short circuit everything out...
wth?
Perihelion Olenard
#406 - 2013-04-28 07:02:33 UTC
With that tracking bonus and the mass reduction the navy brutix may make an interesting dual propulsion platform.
Naomi Knight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#407 - 2013-04-28 09:25:19 UTC
Anybody else think navy drake seems rather weak compared to the others maybe except the hurricane.
It has no utility high slots 8 effective weapons vs 9 on brutix+harb and 10 on cane.
It get 5% explo radius vs 7.5% tracking.
Also less drones.
Has fitting problems.
It doesnt looks tankier at all.
Slow compared to the brutix/cane.
10 med+lows vs 11.
Oh and best if it is meant to be a long range missile kiter , then why its sensor range is so short? 60km...
It should be minimum 75km
oh and the shield tanked railgun brutix is superior .... yeah it is , gj balacning
Florian Kuehne
Tech3 Company
#408 - 2013-04-28 09:58:46 UTC
Just a simple question. I know that some Commdanships will have some improvements but look at the navy BC.

They are strong opponents against the commandships. They got more HP, more slots, more damage due to tracking bonus etc.
The CS got more resistance, some racial bonus to fleet warfare and thats all.
lollerwaffle
Perkone
Caldari State
#409 - 2013-04-28 10:25:34 UTC
Naomi Knight wrote:
Anybody else think navy drake seems rather weak compared to the others maybe except the hurricane.
*Snip*


At first, I thought, "Drake with 8 launchers = sex"

Then I ran the numbers in EFT:

[NEW Drake Navy Issue, Buffer]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Damage Control II

Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Warp Disruptor II
Large Shield Extender II
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I

Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Assault Missile

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I


Warrior II x5

Compared with a standard HAM drake fit the same way (less 2 launchers, has small neut):

Drake NI vs Standard Drake (All level 5 skills):
Defense:
EHP: 73,151 VS 63,751 (drake as the option of fitting second LSE II to bump this up to 78k)
Resists: 38.7%/ 51%/ 63.3%/ 69.4% VS 54.1%/ 63.2%/ 72.4%/ 77%
Tank: 83hp/s VS 143hp/s

Mobility:
Speed: 188m/s (1,147m/s with MWD) VS 175m/s (1,003m/s with MWD)
Align: 8s VS 8.9s (MWD off)

Offense (drones not inc.):
CN Kinetic DPS: 475 VS 534
CN Others DPS: 475 VS 356
CN Kinetic Volley: 1,599 VS 1,799
CN Others Volley: 1,599 VS 1,199
Missile Velocity: 5,062.5 vs 3,375
Exp Velocity: 151.5 VS 151.5
Exp Radius: 70.3125 VS 93.75

To summarize:
Drake NI is slightly tankier raw HP wise, BUT has a worse resist profile, and no option to fit 2nd LSE.
Drake NI is slightly faster by about 140m/s with MWD on, and about 13m/s with MWD off.
Drake NI has less kinetic dmg than drake, but more damage in other types, with slightly better missile velocity and exp. radius.

Maybe I fail at fitting the Drake NI, and I'm 'doing it wrong' but it looks like the trade-off isn't really worth the price difference to me. Drake NI is slightly more flexible than drake in terms of damage type and speed, with a very slightly better align time, but not really straight up better than the Drake.

Meh. Anyone point out where I'm wrong, and I'll be happy to change my mind.
Syrias Bizniz
some random local shitlords
#410 - 2013-04-28 22:55:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Syrias Bizniz
Wow @ Navy Drake. Already got my fitting for it ready2go, ... absolute beast impending from the paper stats and having in mind what a regular drake can achieve right now.


€: what you're doing wrong is trying to compare the regular drake to the new navy drake. They are very close up in tank and damage for SOLO WORK, in a fleet environment with logi, the normal drake will be better just because of the resistances. However, the Navy Drake's ability to project it's damage is by far better. BY FAR.
Armin Arraeb
Doomheim
#411 - 2013-04-29 15:36:56 UTC
Maybe a little heretical question:
While your adding faction Battlecruisers, why not adding pirate Battlecruisers as well?
I mean this is the last ship category that does not have pirate versions! (except of capitals of course)
Jonas Sukarala
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#412 - 2013-04-29 16:30:52 UTC
Armin Arraeb wrote:
Maybe a little heretical question:
While your adding faction Battlecruisers, why not adding pirate Battlecruisers as well?
I mean this is the last ship category that does not have pirate versions! (except of capitals of course)


and destroyers that don't even have navy versions yet

'Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line' CCP Ytterbium Nerf missile range into place where is the TD missile change?  ..projectiles should use capacitor. ABC's should be T2 HABC and nerf web strength its still too high

Calathorn Virpio
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#413 - 2013-04-29 21:45:34 UTC
ok....see the attack and navy BC threads, where is the regular BC one?

BRING BACK THE JUKEBOX

I attended the School of Hard Nocks, the only place you will ever learn anything of value, sadly most Americans never meet the requirments to attend
Syrias Bizniz
some random local shitlords
#414 - 2013-04-29 22:09:33 UTC
Calathorn Virpio wrote:
ok....see the attack and navy BC threads, where is the regular BC one?




wtf man? You've been in a coma or sth like that?
Hagika
Standard Corp 123
#415 - 2013-04-30 02:32:21 UTC
Aliventi wrote:
This Navy drake is going to be so be OP. No longer restricted to just kinetic damage. Velocity bonus (Kiting HAM drake anyone?) and excellent damage projection against smaller targets? Simply beyond winning.



Rumor has it, the first production navy drake is going to be flown by Chuck Norris.Shocked
Hagika
Standard Corp 123
#416 - 2013-04-30 03:35:58 UTC
To be honest, the idea of Navy BC's sound good and all but there are other fixes that are far more in need than new ships. Such as medium rail,torp changes, amarr cap issues and many other things that have been noted.

Would be nice to take care of problems before making more problems.

As for the Navy Drake, this is how the current one should be.
Avald Midular
Doomheim
#417 - 2013-04-30 03:44:45 UTC
Hagika wrote:
To be honest, the idea of Navy BC's sound good and all but there are other fixes that are far more in need than new ships. Such as medium rail,torp changes, amarr cap issues and many other things that have been noted.

Would be nice to take care of problems before making more problems.

As for the Navy Drake, this is how the current one should be.


Agreed, the line between using a BC and a BS is even more blurry now given these navy BC's tank and mobility. With these in the game I feel like we need more of a reason to go with BS's.
Hagika
Standard Corp 123
#418 - 2013-04-30 03:45:44 UTC
Flyinghotpocket wrote:
lol rage rage cry cry cry. guess what scum of the universe, its amarr time, all you other races had your years of awesome pwning pvp, now its amarr time biatch!

look forward to killing many navy hurricanes with new navy harbinger!


Actually some years ago, Amarr was an unstoppable r@pe machine. Caldari was even awesome.

Its been going fairly balanced between amarr,gallente and minnie for awhile now, well minus the last 2 years. In which Matar has been king of the hill in most ship classes. Caldari has had the drake hype for awhile but thats over and done with.

Hopefully we will see everything even out with everyone.
Hagika
Standard Corp 123
#419 - 2013-04-30 03:47:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Hagika
Avald Midular wrote:
Hagika wrote:
To be honest, the idea of Navy BC's sound good and all but there are other fixes that are far more in need than new ships. Such as medium rail,torp changes, amarr cap issues and many other things that have been noted.

Would be nice to take care of problems before making more problems.

As for the Navy Drake, this is how the current one should be.


Agreed, the line between using a BC and a BS is even more blurry now given these navy BC's tank and mobility. With these in the game I feel like we need more of a reason to go with BS's.



Yes I completely agree with you, the battleship needs to make a come back. The only real use now is ridiculous arty fleets.

I also can not express enough on medium rail changes, regular and capital ship missile systems and amarr cap issues.
Also Beams eat way too much PG.
Avald Midular
Doomheim
#420 - 2013-04-30 03:56:18 UTC
Hagika wrote:
Avald Midular wrote:
Hagika wrote:
To be honest, the idea of Navy BC's sound good and all but there are other fixes that are far more in need than new ships. Such as medium rail,torp changes, amarr cap issues and many other things that have been noted.

Would be nice to take care of problems before making more problems.

As for the Navy Drake, this is how the current one should be.


Agreed, the line between using a BC and a BS is even more blurry now given these navy BC's tank and mobility. With these in the game I feel like we need more of a reason to go with BS's.



Yes I completely agree with you, the battleship needs to make a come back. The only real use now is ridiculous arty fleets.

I also can not express enough on medium rail changes, regular and capital ship missile systems and amarr cap issues.
Also Beams eat way too much PG.


Abaddon Arty fleets at that.