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Warfare & Tactics

 
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Safe Spot Question

Author
Wyntyr Frost
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-04-18 15:17:06 UTC
If you are flying a fast ship, say 3000- m/s for example, and ratting in lowsec, would it be relatively safe to just fly in a random direction when you see combat probes?

I would think that if you are pinpointed and the person warps immediately it'll still be 5-6 seconds before they get to you. In that time you'd be 15+ km away from where they saw you, more if they take time to recall their probes. Most PvP fits are for close range and 15+km separation would make it next to impossible to be caught.
JAF Anders
Adenosine Inhibition
The Chicken Coop
#2 - 2013-04-18 15:24:46 UTC
You'll have more time than that. Think about how long it takes to align, accelerate, travel at max warp speed (where applicable), decelerate, and land. From there, you'll have a few more moments before the scanner can scan their probes again, giving them a fresh hit on your location. They'll be able to align in that time and their warp will be pretty short. That's the 5-6 seconds you're thinking about.

The pursuit of excellence and stabbed plexing alts.

Meditril
Hoplite Brigade
Ushra'Khan
#3 - 2013-04-18 15:26:22 UTC
If you are on your toes and are aligned then it should work for most cases. However, if the enemy is clever he will warp to your cloaked and find out to which object you are aligned to. Then he will bounce to the object and come back at distance... and with some luck he might land on you. So it is not 100% safe.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#4 - 2013-04-18 15:27:11 UTC
Wyntyr Frost wrote:
If you are flying a fast ship, say 3000- m/s for example, and ratting in lowsec, would it be relatively safe to just fly in a random direction when you see combat probes?

I would think that if you are pinpointed and the person warps immediately it'll still be 5-6 seconds before they get to you. In that time you'd be 15+ km away from where they saw you, more if they take time to recall their probes. Most PvP fits are for close range and 15+km separation would make it next to impossible to be caught.


Sounds perfectly safe. Not much could go wrong.
Rakkanar
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2013-04-22 17:40:44 UTC
How did you convince the rats to come to your safespot?
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#6 - 2013-04-24 02:22:26 UTC
No. A fleet member could probe you down and warp an interceptor onto you.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.

Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#7 - 2013-04-24 03:51:07 UTC
Wyntyr Frost wrote:
If you are flying a fast ship, say 3000- m/s for example, and ratting in lowsec, would it be relatively safe to just fly in a random direction when you see combat probes?

I would think that if you are pinpointed and the person warps immediately it'll still be 5-6 seconds before they get to you. In that time you'd be 15+ km away from where they saw you, more if they take time to recall their probes. Most PvP fits are for close range and 15+km separation would make it next to impossible to be caught.


Unless you are in an escalation, a mission or a safe then probes aren't needed to find you (quickly), and the thing that arrives, can find you whilst cloaked, and can cloak warp to your grid and can be an arazu with very long point, ie you might be running for a long time before you got away from an arazu with web drones - and lowsec tends to imply that the arazu will be ahead of a roam, and local will spike the moment you get snagged.


Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising
Goonswarm Federation
#8 - 2013-04-26 00:29:02 UTC
Wyntyr Frost wrote:
If you are flying a fast ship, say 3000- m/s for example, and ratting in lowsec, would it be relatively safe to just fly in a random direction when you see combat probes?

I would think that if you are pinpointed and the person warps immediately it'll still be 5-6 seconds before they get to you. In that time you'd be 15+ km away from where they saw you, more if they take time to recall their probes. Most PvP fits are for close range and 15+km separation would make it next to impossible to be caught.




This is done fairly often, probably for a variety of purposes. The basic premise is that a fast ship is ... well ... fast. So if your fast ship is burning in a straight line and someone is trying to probe you, even if they have good probing skills, you will be some distance away by the time they manage to land anyone nearby to try tackle you. In many situations this works, which is why ppl do it, but it works mainly because those trying to catch you either are not very good at this game or they view you as not being worth the effort.

If you do choose to try this then, step 1, do not align your burn towards anything in the system. Usually (but not always) that means burning up or down out of the main system axis. That removes the easiest way to catch you ... to warp to you, usually at range, from the celestial that you are burning towards. Even up or down burners can be caught this way, for example I have above-and-below axis bookmarks in all my home systems ... taken from old anoms or old-style deep-safes.

Now, if you are burning not-towards-anything-in-the-system, the main way of catching you is to simply employ a faster ship ... and assume that you are not actively monitoring your character. Depending on the target ship I refit something small and fast and use my scanner guy to squad-warp me to the nearest probe-scanning 'fix', often doing this in a two-step to make for a relatively short final warp-in. From there I simply burn after the target (if he is fast and switched-on he will often be close to 200km away by the time I land) and tackle / kill him. If he is not AFK then all he has to do is warp away when I land on grid.
If he is not very good then I find I land closer to him, so I can use ships with bonuses for point/web range to catch him rather than a fast little guy.
Also, if he has better speed-related skills than me and maxi-speed-increasing implants, then it's possible that I would not be able to catch him ... but that has not yet been the case.

I have no idea how this burning-away method could be helpful in mission or FW sites, but this method is pretty often practised by people 'camping' lowsec / nullsec systems in fast non-cloaky ships ... mainly in an attempt to taunt the locals I suspect.

I guess I am almost a 'vet' by now. Hopefully not too bitter and managing to help more than I hinder. I build and sell many things, including large collections of bookmarks.

Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#9 - 2013-04-26 08:32:59 UTC
Almost noone bothers to probe down a safed frigate.. its about 95% safe to safe and burn.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

feihcsiM
THE B0YS
#10 - 2013-04-26 13:05:51 UTC
It is possible, I do it on a regular basis, but I generally won't bother unless it's at least a T2/faction frig upwards, it's close to home and I'm bored.

Protip: If you burn in an 'empty direction' away from any celestials you cut down the chance of being caught even further. If trying to catch a safed ship that isn't rotating safes I will often probe them & see where they are alligned, warp to that celestial, warp back to the probe result and make a new safe a few hundred km before I land, then warp back to the safe I just made and sit there until the target arrives.

Indeed, I have a rapier with a probe launcher & sebo for that very purpose. Even if someone isn't alligned to anything it is possible, you can use a covops for the initial find, dock, swap ships to rapier, pre overload mid rack, reconnect to probes, warp cloaked to result, wait until target is 150km+ away, allign towards them, reprobe, decloak & instawarp and go for tackle.

Needs a bit of luck but funny when it happens.

It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine.

Khalid DeCroix
Hard Knocks Inc.
Hard Knocks Citizens
#11 - 2013-04-28 20:26:47 UTC
No it's not safe. There's a handful of ways they can catch you. But most won't try.
Secret Squirrell
Allied Press Intergalactic
#12 - 2013-04-28 21:18:52 UTC
You could also be chased down by a combination of probes, dscan and a really fast ceptor/pirate frig