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Replacing the In Game Browser

Author
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#1 - 2013-04-26 12:32:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Steve Ronuken
We were told to talk about it here, so here's a post.

We would like an up to date browser please. The IGB integration, while not a vital thing, is /really/ */really/* useful. Some sites depend on the information that it feeds back for their function.



As an aside, it'd be nice to be able to load up links in the system's default browser, from inside eve. Perhaps as a right click. So you can right click a url and use the system default for that protocol. Maybe having a list of protocols which can be matched.


Such as irc links, teamspeak links and so on.


Give a wave if you support this please Smile

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

roigon
TURN LEFT
HYDRA RELOADED
#2 - 2013-04-26 12:43:05 UTC
I'd support having regular updates to the IGB. Not too keen on adding Yet-Another-Left-Click-Option.

Karbowiak
The League Of Unwanted Capsuleers
#3 - 2013-04-26 12:55:18 UTC
I'd settle for them removing it, and replacing the link clicking with an event that fires up an external browser.

Or, just them keeping the IGB, but adding an option to launch links in an external browser P
Chaotic Mind
Wet Corpses
#4 - 2013-04-26 13:01:15 UTC
- somehow make it way more secure, pretty easy to fake the headers
- more drag'n'drop possibilities
Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
#5 - 2013-04-26 13:08:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Tonto Auri
I've made this suggestion before, and I'll post it again.
Leave the "new" browser as it is. It serves it's purpose well, but it's not enough for certain moments, and not gonna work as good, as the real IGB works.
Give us additional tool - browser feeds. Replace the unusable "Map browser" with a sidebar, that may house a number of resizable panels, each hosting a small IGB attached to a web feed.
Then you can finally get something good of this panel.
Scouting reports, custom solarsystem maps, webchat - whatever the minds of EVE players may visualize and put together. And all with live feeds, without risk of accidental closing.

Two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity. -- Harlan Ellison

Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
#6 - 2013-04-26 13:10:34 UTC
Chaotic Mind wrote:
- somehow make it way more secure, pretty easy to fake the headers

IGB trust is not for you to trust it, it's for your clients to trust you with their data.

Two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity. -- Harlan Ellison

Ydnari
Estrale Frontiers
#7 - 2013-04-26 13:14:44 UTC
The IGB needs an update from Chrome 3 to something more modern.

It could also do with being able to open multiple windows, and a compact mode that hides the browser controls so whatever web app you have in it has access to all the window space, so you can dock useful things in various places like minimaps or fleet tools.

And the javascript API could do with some love, it's a bit patchy in function coverage.

Opening in external browser could be handy, although that's got to be handled with care with the obvious dangers in spawning external processes; so long as it's done right, yes that'd be nice.

--

Ydnari
Estrale Frontiers
#8 - 2013-04-26 13:20:38 UTC
Tonto Auri wrote:
I've made this suggestion before, and I'll post it again.
Give us additional tool - browser feeds. Replace the unusable "Map browser" with a sidebar, that may house a number of resizable panels, each hosting a small IGB attached to a web feed.
Then you can finally get something good of this panel.
Scouting reports, custom solarsystem maps, webchat - whatever the minds of EVE players may visualize and put together. And all with live feeds, without risk of accidental closing.


That's a decent idea.

--

Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#9 - 2013-04-26 13:47:31 UTC
Chaotic Mind wrote:
- somehow make it way more secure, pretty easy to fake the headers
- more drag'n'drop possibilities



If you need trustworthy data, that's where CREST becomes useful, when it gets released. They'll auth against the SSO server, and then hand you a token, which you can look up in crest to get more information. (if it's just auth, you'll get the character id. And that is trustworthy data.)

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Ydnari
Estrale Frontiers
#10 - 2013-04-26 16:35:53 UTC
The old IGB could be told to refresh page on session changes so that it could send your updated location to the web app you were using; this got lost in the upgrade to chromium/awesomium.

A better way to get that functionality back would be to have hooks in the CCPEVE javascript integration object, so that you can register your own functions to be called on (at least) session change. This would mean things like minimaps would be up to date with your location, and avoid them having to spam regular refreshes or redundant AJAX requests.

This principle could go further for other events, e.g. hooks to feed in market data as you look at it - this could be a supported way to get market data for EMDR in light of the cache-scraping controversy.

Or a callback when you board a ship, including its current fitting, to feed into fleet management apps. Various possibilities here.

--

Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
#11 - 2013-04-26 23:48:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Tonto Auri
Ydnari wrote:
The old IGB could be told to refresh page on session changes so that it could send your updated location to the web app you were using; this got lost in the upgrade to chromium/awesomium.

A better way to get that functionality back would be to have hooks in the CCPEVE javascript integration object, so that you can register your own functions to be called on (at least) session change. This would mean things like minimaps would be up to date with your location, and avoid them having to spam regular refreshes or redundant AJAX requests.

This principle could go further for other events, e.g. hooks to feed in market data as you look at it - this could be a supported way to get market data for EMDR in light of the cache-scraping controversy.

Or a callback when you board a ship, including its current fitting, to feed into fleet management apps. Various possibilities here.

Refer back to https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2932834#post2932834
That is what I was specifically referring to. MANY features of the old IGB wre left out, that I would like to come back.
and the most direct way I see them to come back is through real IGB, not that awesome pampers.

Two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity. -- Harlan Ellison

Dino Boff
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2013-04-27 12:01:33 UTC
The IGB is a great tools and CCP needs to maintain it and give us better tools to develop website for it (like the webkit developer tools or a standalone version with webkit developer tools - having to run the client, be online and use the cryptic log to debug a page is a pain).

However, if it's too difficult to keep the IGB up to date they may as well give us something else to interact with the client.
Niraia
Starcakes
#13 - 2013-04-27 13:56:45 UTC
Ydnari wrote:
The IGB needs an update from Chrome 3 to something more modern.


This! Why hasn't it been updated in so long, anyway? It seems like Awesomium is still being maintained.

iskflakes
#14 - 2013-04-27 14:03:07 UTC
Remove it. It's not relevant anymore. Replace the IGB header functionality with single signon via external browsers.

-

Niraia
Starcakes
#15 - 2013-04-27 14:53:47 UTC
iskflakes wrote:
Remove it. It's not relevant anymore. Replace the IGB header functionality with single signon via external browsers.


Those headers aren't the only reason that people use the IGB, and by that logic, you should remove your nipples :p

Karbowiak
The League Of Unwanted Capsuleers
#16 - 2013-04-27 15:34:21 UTC
Niraia wrote:
iskflakes wrote:
Remove it. It's not relevant anymore. Replace the IGB header functionality with single signon via external browsers.


Those headers aren't the only reason that people use the IGB, and by that logic, you should remove your nipples :p


Just to go off topic here, but, you do know that nipples on men aren't useless, right?

Men _CAN_ lactate.. true story..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male_lactation
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=strange-but-true-males-can-lactate

So yeah, you gotta find something else he should remove P
Shellac Brookdale
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
#17 - 2013-04-27 15:39:29 UTC
The IGB is crucial for various tools from my alliance. IGB headers allow to create really cool tools for filling gaps in the EVE UI (autopilot with jump bridges anyone?). The current browser version might be outdated but its working, so why remove it

Whats also really good about the IGB is that its a striped down browser version without flash, java or downloads. It makes it somewhat more secure instead of relying on the security settings of the external browser.

Maybe CCP can team up with this guys (who plan to take the IGB idea even further)::
http://camelotunchained.com/en/making-a-game-out-of-the-web/


Dino Boff
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2013-04-27 21:39:11 UTC
iskflakes wrote:
Remove it. It's not relevant anymore. Replace the IGB header functionality with single signon via external browsers.


Once we have CREST, the headers won't be as useful. However, IGB browser headers are a lightweight source of info (if insecure) and external browser can't interact with client.

You will be able to emulate some operation using CREST but some will probably never be accessible to CREST (anything related to the wallet or the market).

Liu Ellens
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2013-04-27 21:40:10 UTC
I'd like to do a rundown of the integrated functionalities and attempt a separation of concerns. As it is currently, the IGB provides several functions, and none of them well.

* Status attributes, provided by headers. Unsafe and increasingly difficult to support (underscores in their names?)
* Request client actions, provided by JavaScript methods *). One-way (Fire-and-forget), dependent on trust, brittle in setup.
* Provide a canvas for relevant (client "extending") functionality. With an old, limited browser engine with laggy integration.

*) I include "showinfo:" links in that one - should these work, haven't checked in ages.

Please add to this list when further uses don't fall into these categories, I surely don't know all your applications.


Now, for the first two, CREST is (or can be) the answer, removing all of the negatives and more (e.g. get an event when ship is changed - instead of another request). CREST could also provide a resource to represent the EVE client to show windows (e.g. "show new mail window"). Yes, this adds more hops to such requests (assuming you run the CREST endpoint on your server) - but I don't see any major problem with that. With the proper libraries in place, this would be only a handfull of more lines of code.

As for the generic canvas functionality: I kind of like that idea of replacing the map sidebar - but then again, what's the overall benefit? When I want to lose screen estate, why from within the client? Why not set up an actual browser window how the user sees fit?

I see this IGB like it was done with the jukebox: There are better, other applications for this function, why try to maintain it? In this regard I'm for marking the IGB as obsolete as soon as CREST provides what the IGB handles now and remove it one year afterwards.

Well, they oughta know what to do with them hogs out there for shure.

DSpite Culhach
#20 - 2013-04-28 12:28:39 UTC
Is there a way to make IGB links call up stuff in game? Like make a link to a market item so it calls up the market window with the item in it, it would allow making html notes, friends lists etc, that could be shared to call up info quickly.

I apparently have no idea what I'm doing.

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