These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Ore Changes For Odyssey
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#101 - 2013-04-27 13:51:43 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
lower isk/m3 due to higher concentration of bad ores like gneiss/spod. (and those ores can't be skipped, unless you like waiting 4 days for it to respawn)


Which is what I base my reasoning on, when suggsting that Gneiss and Spod be rebalanced by adding high ends rather than low ends. Tritanium and Pyerite are far worse ISK/m3 than Nocxium and Zydrine. Thus while mineral compression exists, hauling of bulky refined minerals in null sec is going to be competing with jump freighter loads of 40:1 compressed minerals from Jita. One freighter load from Jita, or forty loads from two systems over?

I wouldn't want to be the poor schmuck spending an entire evening schlepping a freighter around null.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Dave Stark
#102 - 2013-04-27 13:59:06 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
lower isk/m3 due to higher concentration of bad ores like gneiss/spod. (and those ores can't be skipped, unless you like waiting 4 days for it to respawn)


Which is what I base my reasoning on, when suggsting that Gneiss and Spod be rebalanced by adding high ends rather than low ends. Tritanium and Pyerite are far worse ISK/m3 than Nocxium and Zydrine. Thus while mineral compression exists, hauling of bulky refined minerals in null sec is going to be competing with jump freighter loads of 40:1 compressed minerals from Jita. One freighter load from Jita, or forty loads from two systems over?

I wouldn't want to be the poor ******* spending an entire evening schlepping a freighter around null.


but more high ends wouldn't increase the isk/m3 of thsoe ores, it'd just lower the isk/m3 of abc ores. high ends aren't the bottleneck.
adding high ends would just make the problem worse.
Regnag Leppod
Doomheim
#103 - 2013-04-27 14:40:26 UTC
Would removing Nocx from high-sec really make a difference beyond making a lot of miners upset?

Jaspet has quite a bit of Nocx compared to Pyrox, but people aren't exactly flocking to low-sec to mine Jaspet, even with the added bonus of the zydrine.

I'm very interested to see what happens anyway. Re-subbed to be in game when it all starts to change.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#104 - 2013-04-27 15:12:00 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:

  • Pyroxeres: swap 11 Nocxium for 500 Pyerite
  • Omber: add 300 Mexallon
  • Jaspet: swap 8 Zydrine and 259 Tritanium for 300 Isogen
I agree with this. But maybe leave a tiny bit of Nocxium in the Pyroxeres, else you make a lot of people mad.


I would prefer hisec people to be mad and lowsec/w-space/nullsec people to be rich. There is already Hedbergite, Hemorphite and Jaspet in hisec through grav sites. At least, assuming CCP don't just go wholesale removing grav sites altogether. Leaving any nocxium in pyroxeres devalues nocxium throughout the economy.

My view of the economical progression is that hisec is the resource poor zone, with everywhere else being resource rich. After all, being empire space all the mining corporations have supposedly stripped the place clean. If you want to make the big bucks, head to lowsec, w-space and nullsec where there are still valuable resources to exploit.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#105 - 2013-04-27 15:13:05 UTC
Regnag Leppod wrote:
Jaspet has quite a bit of Nocx compared to Pyrox, but people aren't exactly flocking to low-sec to mine Jaspet, even with the added bonus of the zydrine.


This is because of the balance of ores in Jaspet making it an unattractive ore. Even in Hedbergite/Hemorphite/Jaspet sites in hisec, people will leave the Jaspet behind because it's worth less than Veldspar/Scordite.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#106 - 2013-04-27 15:13:43 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Hmmm... trit and py will fall through the floor! Eve will be in a recession! Panic! Flee! Horde ALL the ISK! Grab your ventures and secure your measly stockpile! ALL the PLEX will be worthless!!!!!!!!!!!!!


In short, the main bullet point to take away from this is that Eve is dying, and this will kill it faster.


deflation is not recession...

i think prices will go down to pre- drone poo nerf.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Dave Stark
#107 - 2013-04-27 15:15:44 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Hmmm... trit and py will fall through the floor! Eve will be in a recession! Panic! Flee! Horde ALL the ISK! Grab your ventures and secure your measly stockpile! ALL the PLEX will be worthless!!!!!!!!!!!!!


In short, the main bullet point to take away from this is that Eve is dying, and this will kill it faster.


deflation is not recession...

i think prices will go down to pre- drone poo nerf.


between the small amount of minerals added, and the low volume mined in null sec. we're not going to ever see pre-drone poop removal prices.

i'd be surprised if trit goes below 4-4.5 isk. not saying it can't, i'll just be surprised if it does.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#108 - 2013-04-27 15:25:48 UTC
Kurfin wrote:
It all depends on how much industry moves out to null as a result. I guess it will greatly reduce the low ends being shipped out of high for capitals, but I'm not sure what percentage of high sec minerals end up in caps. Only time will tell how many null alliances bother to make their subcaps out in null, rather than ship in from high, as a result of these changes.

I can't see much trit and pyrite being shipped into high sec from null, a freighter full of the stuff isn't going to be worth enough for them to bother.



i am not an indy guy by far... but why would you reprocess the stuff in null if you intend on selling it in high sec?

would you not compress it in an rorq and then transport it to high sec then reprocess the stuff?

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#109 - 2013-04-27 15:26:46 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Hmmm... trit and py will fall through the floor! Eve will be in a recession! Panic! Flee! Horde ALL the ISK! Grab your ventures and secure your measly stockpile! ALL the PLEX will be worthless!!!!!!!!!!!!!


In short, the main bullet point to take away from this is that Eve is dying, and this will kill it faster.


deflation is not recession...

i think prices will go down to pre- drone poo nerf.


between the small amount of minerals added, and the low volume mined in null sec. we're not going to ever see pre-drone poop removal prices.

i'd be surprised if trit goes below 4-4.5 isk. not saying it can't, i'll just be surprised if it does.



man i remeber when trit was 2 isk and a domi cost me 55 million... i miss those days... ffs 150 mill for a bs is like 07 all over again...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#110 - 2013-04-27 15:33:10 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Hmmm... trit and py will fall through the floor! Eve will be in a recession! Panic! Flee! Horde ALL the ISK! Grab your ventures and secure your measly stockpile! ALL the PLEX will be worthless!!!!!!!!!!!!!


In short, the main bullet point to take away from this is that Eve is dying, and this will kill it faster.


deflation is not recession...

i think prices will go down to pre- drone poo nerf.


I disagree. You have to look at what was causing the depressed prices with drone poo. There was a way to create minerals that was faster than mining.

50 million an isk an hour mission bounties.
50 million ISK worth of minerals an hour drone poo.
25 million ISK an hour mining.

You couldn't get an equilibrium between mission bounties and mining yield, because there was another option for mineral injection. If mining produced half the minerals of drone poo, then mining was locked into half the profitability of missioning becuase the eualibrium established by people deciding the most profitable activity was between missioning for bounties or killing drones for minerals.


Now, with drone poo gone, as mineral prices drop below mission bounty equilibrium, people will park the exhumers and break out the mission boats... supply and demand will pull mineral prices back up to equilibrium.



And, NO... adding more trit and pyr is not going to make null mining more profitable than high. More likely, the need to get trit and pyr will cause more croc and bist mining to occur... driving down the price of the high ends that will become the shist... the byproduct of what you are really after.


All this change does it make it so that construction in null is not bottle necked by how many freighter loads of trit you can get in.

Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#111 - 2013-04-27 17:42:55 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:
LHA Tarawa wrote:
4) Since a lot of miners use PLEX to fund lots of alts, and the decision to use these alts is largely based on number of hours of mining to buy a PLEX, IF mining profitability drops, either PLEX price will drop (meaning the same number of hour for me to fund my accounts) or miners will drop alts until mineral prices return to a more reasonable number of hours of mining to fund their accounts.


I don't know... If I was a bean counter at CCP, I would not want people to be dropping their alts and decreasing the bottom line. Surely that would mean lower budgets to do future expansions.


Marketing and Development are 2 separate departments with 2 different foci.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#112 - 2013-04-27 17:46:17 UTC
I wonder how this will affect the # of belts in a system versus the rats that are killed and provide that other form of income.

Not to mention ratting for ratters.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#113 - 2013-04-27 17:53:20 UTC
LHA Tarawa wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Hmmm... trit and py will fall through the floor! Eve will be in a recession! Panic! Flee! Horde ALL the ISK! Grab your ventures and secure your measly stockpile! ALL the PLEX will be worthless!!!!!!!!!!!!!


In short, the main bullet point to take away from this is that Eve is dying, and this will kill it faster.


deflation is not recession...

i think prices will go down to pre- drone poo nerf.


I disagree. You have to look at what was causing the depressed prices with drone poo. There was a way to create minerals that was faster than mining.

50 million an isk an hour mission bounties.
50 million ISK worth of minerals an hour drone poo.
25 million ISK an hour mining.

You couldn't get an equilibrium between mission bounties and mining yield, because there was another option for mineral injection. If mining produced half the minerals of drone poo, then mining was locked into half the profitability of missioning becuase the eualibrium established by people deciding the most profitable activity was between missioning for bounties or killing drones for minerals.


Now, with drone poo gone, as mineral prices drop below mission bounty equilibrium, people will park the exhumers and break out the mission boats... supply and demand will pull mineral prices back up to equilibrium.



And, NO... adding more trit and pyr is not going to make null mining more profitable than high. More likely, the need to get trit and pyr will cause more croc and bist mining to occur... driving down the price of the high ends that will become the shist... the byproduct of what you are really after.


All this change does it make it so that construction in null is not bottle necked by how many freighter loads of trit you can get in.


Post with your main.

Harvesting drone poo wasn't faster than mining. It augmented mining. Unless you're implying that no mining occurred in Eve during the entire period of the Drone Regions' mineral superiority.

I've been repeatedly beaten over the head with the fact that there are more than enough minerals in Eve to supply the demand. You take a lot of pride here in pointing out that one method of acquisition was "faster" than the other - almost to the point of implying the other did not even occur. However, there have always been enough miners and minerals in Eve to supply the need. They simply wouldn't, preferring to mine for the prior Lowest Common Denominator: Ice products.

If high-sec publords who had been LCD mining ice for the past six months had mined tritanium and pyerite occasionally instead, maybe CCP wouldn't have felt the need to take most of their toys away and give them to the people who would actually use them - null. So high-sec's backup plans (Veld and Scord) have been downgraded to not much of a plan at all, and miners have nobody to blame except themselves for it.

Seems about right to me. Nice job, CCP!

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom