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Ore Changes For Odyssey
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Dave Stark
#81 - 2013-04-27 08:59:10 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
I would expect miners to go out of their way to despawn low end sites to encourage more high end sites.


that's not how it works. when you exhaust a site, an identical one spawns. for pure isk/m3 value, no site is worth mining except for the large one, currently. nobody bothers with the xl or giant ones, and people only mine the smaller ones to increase the industry index to spawn large sites.

besides, you see a level 5 industry system on the map and you can bet your ass 4 cloakies are on their way to camp it.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#82 - 2013-04-27 08:59:17 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Loan--Wolf wrote:
if i understood the blog grave are being removed end of storie that mean in whs to

Gravimetric cosmic signatures are being replaced by anomalies, yes.
Which simply means you don't have to use probes to find them.


… or the juicy targets mining them.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#83 - 2013-04-27 09:00:13 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:
I would expect miners to go out of their way to despawn low end sites to encourage more high end sites.


that's not how it works. when you exhaust a site, an identical one spawns.


Well there you go, learn a new thing every day :)

Why do people ignore the XL/giant sites?

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Dave Stark
#84 - 2013-04-27 09:00:38 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
(2) The large sites are hideously undersupplied with low-end minerals, by a factor of something insane, about 200:1 or something ridiculous like that (Dave Stark, help me out here! *shines the StarkSignal™)


i, uh, don't think i have a spreadsheet for that...

let me make one!
Dave Stark
#85 - 2013-04-27 09:07:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
Mara Rinn wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:
I would expect miners to go out of their way to despawn low end sites to encourage more high end sites.


that's not how it works. when you exhaust a site, an identical one spawns.


Well there you go, learn a new thing every day :)

Why do people ignore the XL/giant sites?


lower isk/m3 due to higher concentration of bad ores like gneiss/spod. (and those ores can't be skipped, unless you like waiting 4 days for it to respawn)

also, as a side note, xl and giant sites require sov index thingy of 4/5, which just attracts cloaky afkers. better to have multiple industry 3 systems spread out so it requires more effort to deter you from mining in your space.
Dave Stark
#86 - 2013-04-27 09:14:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
Dave Stark wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
(2) The large sites are hideously undersupplied with low-end minerals, by a factor of something insane, about 200:1 or something ridiculous like that (Dave Stark, help me out here! *shines the StarkSignal™)


i, uh, don't think i have a spreadsheet for that...

let me make one!


delivering...

currently (pre Odyssey) a large grav site contains...

~1.8m trit.
~690k pyerite
~922k mexallon
~830k isogen
~302k nocxium
~263k megacyte
~473k zydrine
~21k morphite.

context.
a rokh takes just shy of 12million units of trit. 6.666.. grav sites, for enough trit to build one.
in comparison it only takes 3.33k megacite to build a rokh. so you mine 0.013 grav sites (that's 1.3% of a grav site)
that's 6.666 : 0.013.
that means for every 1 grav site worth of megacyte, you need 512 sites worth of trit.
so 512:1 is the ratio. if that's the ratio you were after.

or something, i've not been awake long and haven't injected any narcotics in to my eyeball so the maths could be dodgy in the context department...
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries
#87 - 2013-04-27 09:14:49 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:
I would expect miners to go out of their way to despawn low end sites to encourage more high end sites.


that's not how it works. when you exhaust a site, an identical one spawns.


Well there you go, learn a new thing every day :)

Why do people ignore the XL/giant sites?


lower isk/m3 due to higher concentration of bad ores like gneiss/spod. (and those ores can't be skipped, unless you like waiting 4 days for it to respawn)

This is something one often miss when sticking to hisec.

You have to mine what you get to keep your indices up.

Including annoying amounts of spod (that pays < 50% of scordite) ...

I think few hisec miners would be willing to run their ops knowing that they are getting 50% profit ...

CCP Greyscale: As to starbases, we agree it's pretty terrible, but we don't want to delay the entire release just for this one factor.
Dave Stark
#88 - 2013-04-27 09:18:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
comparison, post odyssey large grav site.

~28m trit.
~11m pyerite
~1.4m mex
~883k nocx
~302k iso
~263k mega
~473k zyd
~21k morphite

in short, expect a dip in trit, pyerite, and mex values.
perhaps see omber and kernite rise [in terms of ranking, not isk value] again, as they both have a reasonable supply of iso which will stop their value falling as quickly as things like veld/scord.

new ratio of 0.42 : 0.013 ~ 32:1
massive improvement over 512:1
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#89 - 2013-04-27 09:51:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Reaver Glitterstim
Regnag Leppod wrote:
Quote:
The focus of our Ore Mining changes in Odyssey is on ensuring that there are viable and valuable mining opportunities for players in all areas of New Eden. We want mining in low security space to be an activity worthy of the risks taken, and for Nullsec empires to rely on miners and industrialists, welcoming them into their ranks. Creating a new home for these miners also provides opportunities for pilots interested in PVP, as mining is an activity that can be both disrupted and protected by small gangs of ships.


I'm probably just blind, but I don't see any changes to Jaspet/Hemorphite/Hedbergite in that blog, so how exactly does all this mix up make mining in low-sec "worthy of the risks taken"?

It's a good shake up, one that's been needed, but I'm not seeing the changes making any difference between 0.4 and 0.1
Jaspet, Hemorphite, and Hedbergite are fine. The problem is Pyroxeres. It makes Nocxium cheap, lowering the value of lowsec ores. Why mine in lowsec when you can get all the Nocxium you need in highsec?

Mara Rinn wrote:

  • Pyroxeres: swap 11 Nocxium for 500 Pyerite
  • Omber: add 300 Mexallon
  • Jaspet: swap 8 Zydrine and 259 Tritanium for 300 Isogen
I agree with this. But maybe leave a tiny bit of Nocxium in the Pyroxeres, else you make a lot of people mad.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Dave Stark
#90 - 2013-04-27 09:56:54 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Regnag Leppod wrote:
Quote:
The focus of our Ore Mining changes in Odyssey is on ensuring that there are viable and valuable mining opportunities for players in all areas of New Eden. We want mining in low security space to be an activity worthy of the risks taken, and for Nullsec empires to rely on miners and industrialists, welcoming them into their ranks. Creating a new home for these miners also provides opportunities for pilots interested in PVP, as mining is an activity that can be both disrupted and protected by small gangs of ships.


I'm probably just blind, but I don't see any changes to Jaspet/Hemorphite/Hedbergite in that blog, so how exactly does all this mix up make mining in low-sec "worthy of the risks taken"?

It's a good shake up, one that's been needed, but I'm not seeing the changes making any difference between 0.4 and 0.1
Jaspet, Hemorphite, and Hedbergite are fine. The problem is Pyroxeres. It makes Nocxium cheap, lowering the value of lowsec ores. Why mine in lowsec when you can get all the Nocxium you need in highsec?


pyrox provides laughably low volumes of nocxium, and why would you mine it when mining scordite, selling trit/pyerite and buying nocxium is a more efficient method of obtaining nocxium?
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#91 - 2013-04-27 09:59:01 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
pyrox provides laughably low volumes of nocxium
40% of what Hemorphite provides is not laughably low.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Dave Stark
#92 - 2013-04-27 10:12:40 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
pyrox provides laughably low volumes of nocxium
40% of what Hemorphite provides is not laughably low.


of the 6 nocxium giving ores, pyrox is 5th. it's hardly a "good" source of nocxium.
Ana Fox
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#93 - 2013-04-27 10:22:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Ana Fox
It looks like good change for game it self ,but will see how it will affect CCP income.

If big alt fleets in high sec cant make enough to plex all those accounts,there will not be need for them anymore.So average pilots per hour will drop in high sec,and imo on server too.

Now will CCP like that ,we will see.It will be lot more interesting if nothing.Group Ice mining will be more popular imo ,you will need to compete.

But again what will CCP do if they see their income drop if fleet made from multi accounts start to go to hibernation.

I like changes,all that is new is good and will give new flavor,lets see how this will develop.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#94 - 2013-04-27 10:24:42 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
of the 6 nocxium giving ores, pyrox is 5th. it's hardly a "good" source of nocxium.
How it ranks in a lineup is an unnecessary point; what matters is how much it gives. And for a highsec ore, it gives too much. I guarantee you that more than half of the nocxium that comes from mining comes from Pyroxeres. That's because the vast majority of mining takes place in highsec.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#95 - 2013-04-27 10:25:24 UTC
I used to live in lowsec and shoot over into high when the urge to mine took me. Now I'm in Providence and it just hasn't been worth flying / jumping out to mine for 30 or 40 minutes.

I don't think this is going to upset the markets that much. Hardcore nullsec miners are mining anyway, often in highsec. They will now come back and mine in null and produce more, but it is also worth noting that those miners will no longer be mining / selling in highsec, so competition there will go down a bit.

As for casual miners like me; we don't mine that much and rocks being worth more are not going to change that. It will be a welcome diversion and along with the increase in indi slots will let me build a few hulls for myself. Hulls that for the most part take more minerals than they used to.

I bet the price of tritanium doesn't deviate far from its year long averages. Maybe the steady increase we have seen starts to taper off.
Dave Stark
#96 - 2013-04-27 10:28:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
of the 6 nocxium giving ores, pyrox is 5th. it's hardly a "good" source of nocxium.
How it ranks in a lineup is an unnecessary point; what matters is how much it gives. And for a highsec ore, it gives too much. I guarantee you that more than half of the nocxium that comes from mining comes from Pyroxeres. That's because the vast majority of mining takes place in highsec.


therefore it's volume mined, and nothing to do with % yield.
which means how much it gives is also irrelevant.
Dave Stark
#97 - 2013-04-27 10:30:22 UTC
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
I bet the price of tritanium doesn't deviate far from its year long averages. Maybe the steady increase we have seen starts to taper off.


considering the last 12 months has been constant tiericide speculation and fallout from loot changes, those averages don't mean a great deal.
Garresh
Mackies Raiders
Wild Geese.
#98 - 2013-04-27 10:42:38 UTC
Tetsuo Tsukaya wrote:
Loan--Wolf wrote:
Tetsuo Tsukaya wrote:
I'm exited for the changes although I'm not sure mining or any other easily discoverable ISK making will ever be profitable in low sec as there are enough of us bored PVPers who will kill any helpless ratters or miners no matter how many show up.

if there are so many board pvpers in low why kill helpless defenseless miners why not kill others
just asking before i get spamed to hell and back


It's not that we sit around doing nothing, it's that low sec is such that you kill every single thing you can if you have the chance. There are no instant fights, so if you're roaming looking for a fight and you see a miner in an easily discoverable location, you will kill it. In my two months of eve I've only found one miner in a belt in low sec, guess what happened to him...

Unless you can work out some kind of escort to protect you, people who are out looking for other combat fitted ships to blow up will be more than happy to take time to kill your mining skiff


Honestly, not really. It's painfully easy to evade gankers in lowsec. Just gotta pick the right regions, use d-scan, and use your intel to pick the right spot. It's not hard, especially with the Venture.

This Space Intentionally Left Blank
Dave Stark
#99 - 2013-04-27 10:43:38 UTC
Garresh wrote:
especially with the Venture.


and this is the whole problem with low sec mining. if you can't do it in a barge or exhumer it's not worth doing.
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#100 - 2013-04-27 10:53:37 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Garresh wrote:
especially with the Venture.


and this is the whole problem with low sec mining. if you can't do it in a barge or exhumer it's not worth doing.

Exactly. I rather spend my time scanning for low-sec ores in high-sec gravimetric sites.

Sovereignty and Population

New Mining Mechanics