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Do not be deceived

Author
Anabella Rella
Gradient
Electus Matari
#41 - 2013-04-21 03:56:50 UTC
Seriphyn Inhonores wrote:

... After all, it is easy to score points with other capsuleers if there is a mutual channeling of dislike towards Heth. Look at how Diana Kim is ostracized amongst capsuleers for her beliefs...


Kim is ostracized because she's a xenophobe, a racist, an advocate of genocide, a fascist and an unrepentant murderer. People disagree with her absolute and unquestioning blind loyalty to Heth and the Provists not with her loyalty to the State.

When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.

Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#42 - 2013-04-21 08:12:29 UTC
Sakura Nihil wrote:
So, are any State loyalists finally coming around to my point of view, that we should just murder the guy and be done with it?

I have been in agreement for some time now on this matter, though with Heth's recent blunders and the swing of public opinion, it is safer and easier to express said opinion (Though, as a capsuleer, I am at less risk of reprisal for my views, and I most definitely take advantage of that capability.)
Brandi Wiseman
Den Sorte Loge
#43 - 2013-04-21 11:50:50 UTC
This is little more than a claim by Heth to form a dictatorship. This is what stands at odds with what it means to be Caldari, a state which thrives through corporate competition and subsequent technological advancement and enhancement.

Should we follow Heth, our State would be isolated from the rest of New Eden and we would all be the poorer for it. Meanwhile, for all of Heth's bluster, it was on his watch that the State lost a Titan in orbit of one our own planets. Heth should be building bridges, not smashing them down and leading inevitably to the State continuing to lose ground.

In his speech last week, Heth appeared sluggish and I wonder whether his supporters should be wondering whether he is capable of leading his own megacorporation, let alone making a claim to be 'supreme leader' or whatever title he would care to choose.

Fly Caldari!

Vincent Pryce
Damnation Angels
Watch This
#44 - 2013-04-23 18:57:28 UTC
If this tragicomedy actually plays through I wonder how long before the Achura face ethnic purges or indentured servitude under the re-imagined Raata Empire. They were not of Caldari, their blood is not Caldari and once long ago they too were part of the 'insidious' Gallente Federation. Part of the sole thing that is the core of all evil and injustice in the universe in the eyes of emperor Heth.

"From your Curse we made Heaven for ourselves."

Domination Seraphim

Cartel approved, Heaven blessed

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#45 - 2013-04-23 19:45:45 UTC
Vincent Pryce wrote:
If this tragicomedy actually plays through I wonder how long before the Achura face ethnic purges or indentured servitude under the re-imagined Raata Empire. They were not of Caldari, their blood is not Caldari and once long ago they too were part of the 'insidious' Gallente Federation. Part of the sole thing that is the core of all evil and injustice in the universe in the eyes of emperor Heth.

Achura stood with us during the Great War against menace of gallentean agressors and helped us to form the State as we know it today.

Our glorious leader wants to unite us, not separate.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Shiho Weitong
Yeet and Yoink Inc.
Heirs To The Pleasurehub
#46 - 2013-04-23 20:06:01 UTC
Vincent Pryce wrote:
If this tragicomedy actually plays through I wonder how long before the Achura face ethnic purges or indentured servitude under the re-imagined Raata Empire. They were not of Caldari, their blood is not Caldari and once long ago they too were part of the 'insidious' Gallente Federation. Part of the sole thing that is the core of all evil and injustice in the universe in the eyes of emperor Heth.


This statement is both preposterous and delusional.

We who felt the stars cry,
We who saw the federations corruption,
We who rose with our brothers and sisters
We who submitted willingly to Heiian,
We who stayed on the ground until our state bade us to take to the skies,
We who have given all to the state and prospered,
We who would willingly die for the state as those who made the choice for us.

Make no mistake here Jaijii. Achur and my people are with the state, and the state knows as much. The delusions of a single man will never change this. Even if Heth should go down this road, he would be threading it alone.
We shall stand behind the state, and the state shall stand behind us.

There is no other way for my people. The stars have told me this, as they have told it to the gazers before me, as they will tell the gazers who come after me.
Vincent Pryce
Damnation Angels
Watch This
#47 - 2013-04-23 21:01:28 UTC
Shiho Weitong wrote:
Vincent Pryce wrote:
If this tragicomedy actually plays through I wonder how long before the Achura face ethnic purges or indentured servitude under the re-imagined Raata Empire. They were not of Caldari, their blood is not Caldari and once long ago they too were part of the 'insidious' Gallente Federation. Part of the sole thing that is the core of all evil and injustice in the universe in the eyes of emperor Heth.


This statement is both preposterous and delusional.

We who felt the stars cry,
We who saw the federations corruption,
We who rose with our brothers and sisters
We who submitted willingly to Heiian,
We who stayed on the ground until our state bade us to take to the skies,
We who have given all to the state and prospered,
We who would willingly die for the state as those who made the choice for us.

Make no mistake here Jaijii. Achur and my people are with the state, and the state knows as much. The delusions of a single man will never change this. Even if Heth should go down this road, he would be threading it alone.
We shall stand behind the state, and the state shall stand behind us.

There is no other way for my people. The stars have told me this, as they have told it to the gazers before me, as they will tell the gazers who come after me.


I recommend you go back to school and actually learn the history of Saisio and the Achur before you open your mouth and make yourself look like the village idiot next time.

"From your Curse we made Heaven for ourselves."

Domination Seraphim

Cartel approved, Heaven blessed

Shiho Weitong
Yeet and Yoink Inc.
Heirs To The Pleasurehub
#48 - 2013-04-23 21:16:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Shiho Weitong
Vincent Pryce wrote:
Shiho Weitong wrote:
Vincent Pryce wrote:
If this tragicomedy actually plays through I wonder how long before the Achura face ethnic purges or indentured servitude under the re-imagined Raata Empire. They were not of Caldari, their blood is not Caldari and once long ago they too were part of the 'insidious' Gallente Federation. Part of the sole thing that is the core of all evil and injustice in the universe in the eyes of emperor Heth.


This statement is both preposterous and delusional.

We who felt the stars cry,
We who saw the federations corruption,
We who rose with our brothers and sisters
We who submitted willingly to Heiian,
We who stayed on the ground until our state bade us to take to the skies,
We who have given all to the state and prospered,
We who would willingly die for the state as those who made the choice for us.

Make no mistake here Jaijii. Achur and my people are with the state, and the state knows as much. The delusions of a single man will never change this. Even if Heth should go down this road, he would be threading it alone.
We shall stand behind the state, and the state shall stand behind us.

There is no other way for my people. The stars have told me this, as they have told it to the gazers before me, as they will tell the gazers who come after me.


I recommend you go back to school and actually learn the history of Saisio and the Achur before you open your mouth and make yourself look like the village idiot next time.


I do not deny that there have been bumps on our road through the stars, as there have for all in this cluster.

Do you challenge my notion that my people support the state?
Do you challenge my notion that my people left the Federation to be with the state?
Do you challenge my notion that my people have prospered under the state?
Do you challenge my notion that my people would die for the state?

Or are you arrogant enough to challenge my position as a gazer for my people?


<< OOC: Apparantly Achura have been retconned without the official wiki having been updated. I have been out of the loop for a while and am sorry for my misconceptions. Feel free to ignore my last 2 posts. >>
Shintoko Akahoshi
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2013-04-24 17:23:49 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
Achura stood with us


Interesting choice of words there. Care to chime in on your views of what happened to the Intaki who sided with the State during the war?

Bio and writing

(Nothing I say is indicative of corporate policy unless otherwise stated)

TomHorn
Horn Brothers Holdings Inc.
#50 - 2013-04-26 14:12:26 UTC
The liberal ,anti-provist, Federation sympathetic CEO's of the Mega corporations are becoming intolerable. The hither and yon governance of the Mega corporations and the CEP is not acceptable during periods of war. The demilitarized zone of Caldari prime is not acceptable.

Times change, and the way nations are governed can change. We need strong leader a patriot leading the State during periods of war. A military dictatorship.

The liberal and anti-provists who say they are willing to murder our State Leader a patriot to the State Tibus Heth is horrifying.

I feel Tibus Heth has come to the same conclusions. Now we must wait and see what the CEO's of the Mega corporations CEP and Tibus Heth decide is the best way forward for the State. To continue with a meritocracy or change the way we are governed to a military dictatorship.

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#51 - 2013-04-26 19:21:57 UTC
Discard the tradition of our Ancestors? The very reasons we left the Federation in the first place?

I'd go Guri first.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Dex Nederland
Lai Dai Infinity Systems
The Fourth District
#52 - 2013-04-26 20:08:00 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Discard the tradition of our Ancestors? The very reasons we left the Federation in the first place?


If we believe that the intent of the secession was to secure the Caldari Way, then we are ignoring some of the very real economic and political realities of the time.

Protection of the Way is what we want the secession to be about, but is that accurate?

We want it to be about a heroic struggle to be an independent people.

To invoke Raata is to invoke the height, power, and unity of Caldari culture; 1,500 years before first contact. It is to invoke the time when the Way was formalized and spread across Home. To invoke protection of the Way is to remember Raata and aspire to that example.


The threat Tibus Heth presents is escalating the conflict with a frightened and powerful Federation, led by men who are equally willing to destroy us to protect their people.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#53 - 2013-04-26 20:15:22 UTC
The Raata empire fell and for very good reasons, I think.

An inflexible, centrally dominated, culture is doomed to tear itself apart as it vitrifies. The State system is founded on the concept with built in 'flex' whilst also being so organised as to best preserve the founder culture. It's a unique system, one we should be proud of and one which we should be prepared to defend against the threat that Heth represents.

Heiian is NOT about the glorification of one man over the many. It is about the opposite of that. Right is RIGHT, not whatever today's man decides is right.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#54 - 2013-04-27 06:22:51 UTC
TomHorn wrote:
To continue with a meritocracy or change the way we are governed to a military dictatorship.

But why do you oppose meritocracy to military dictatorship?
You don't buy your ranks. You aren't elected for your rank by some foolish mob of voters. And you definitely do not inherit your rank from your parents.
You have to EARN your rank. And for some positions, you even have to pass special training or education. You see, the military organization is one of the best and strongest forms of meritocracy.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#55 - 2013-04-27 06:25:30 UTC
Dex Nederland wrote:

The threat Tibus Heth presents is escalating the conflict with a frightened and powerful Federation, led by men who are equally willing to destroy us to protect their people.

The only threat is the Federation itself, and Tibus Heth helps us to deal with it. And if it is led by men who wants to destroy us, we have to destroy them first.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#56 - 2013-04-27 06:46:12 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
The Raata empire fell and for very good reasons, I think.

An inflexible, centrally dominated, culture is doomed to tear itself apart as it vitrifies. The State system is founded on the concept with built in 'flex' whilst also being so organised as to best preserve the founder culture.

The Raata Empire fell because they won against everyone. There were no more enemies, warriors and people became "fat and lazy". There was no force to stand united against. But now there is. And this force is considerably large. We should not allow simple "tradition" to hinder out survival and stay separated while we face it. This "tradition" was nothing that a necessary evolution of the Empire to something well suited for the situation. But now the situation has changed and the tradition became obsolete. This flex is only hurting us now. The time to unite and stand together against common enemy has come once again.

Pieter Tuulinen wrote:

It's a unique system, one we should be proud of and one which we should be prepared to defend against the threat that Heth represents.

Heth-haan is a supreme commander for Caldari forces. Those, who don't follow his orders, are traitors, and must be executed for treason. We have a war going on, you know. The treason is very serious crime during the war. It is a crime against all the Caldari people. Against everything we are.

Do you know, that during a war it is accepted just to shot down obvious traitors without tribunal?

Pieter Tuulinen wrote:

Heiian is NOT about the glorification of one man over the many. It is about the opposite of that. Right is RIGHT, not whatever today's man decides is right.

Right is just opposite to the left.
And it is absolutely accepted to glorify those, who earned this. Those, like Executor Heth, and those, like Admiral Tovil-Toba.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Dex Nederland
Lai Dai Infinity Systems
The Fourth District
#57 - 2013-04-27 06:46:53 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
Dex Nederland wrote:

The threat Tibus Heth presents is escalating the conflict with a frightened and powerful Federation, led by men who are equally willing to destroy us to protect their people.

The only threat is the Federation itself, and Tibus Heth helps us to deal with it. And if it is led by men who wants to destroy us, we have to destroy them first.


Kim-haani, the biggest strengthener of both governments' powers is the threat of the other.

By rejecting the perceived Gallente threat, we can secure the well earned reforms for our descendants Heth-haan called for when he first rose to power. We can complete the colonization and develop Black Rise to its fullest, repay our debt to the Empire (as quickly as possible), and expand the universal presence and prestige of Caldari products and services, used across the cluster.

We can secure a strong State, equal or better in economic and military strength to any power in New Eden. But we can not do it by wasting ourselves in a fruitless war that will only see Home further scarred.

With a reduced Caldari threat, the Federation's populace becomes divided in their priorities. The growth of the Roden administration and the Blaque-led SDII is directly linked to the threat the State poses. Without the threat of Caldari ships and soldiers, the increasingly single-minded Federation government will find itself assailed on all sides by its people, demanding reductions in military spending and the security state and demanding the government pay attention to their small concerns. Corporations across Placid, Essence, Verge Vendor, and Solitude will once again come to us for quality goods and not feel that they have failed in their patriotic duties.

The way to de-claw the Federation is not through war. A conflict, a wound fresh in the minds of the mob only strengthens their resolve.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#58 - 2013-04-27 07:27:05 UTC
Dex Nederland wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
Dex Nederland wrote:

The threat Tibus Heth presents is escalating the conflict with a frightened and powerful Federation, led by men who are equally willing to destroy us to protect their people.

The only threat is the Federation itself, and Tibus Heth helps us to deal with it. And if it is led by men who wants to destroy us, we have to destroy them first.


Kim-haani, the biggest strengthener of both governments' powers is the threat of the other.

By rejecting the perceived Gallente threat, we can secure the well earned reforms for our descendants Heth-haan called for when he first rose to power. We can complete the colonization and develop Black Rise to its fullest, repay our debt to the Empire (as quickly as possible), and expand the universal presence and prestige of Caldari products and services, used across the cluster.

We can secure a strong State, equal or better in economic and military strength to any power in New Eden. But we can not do it by wasting ourselves in a fruitless war that will only see Home further scarred.

With a reduced Caldari threat, the Federation's populace becomes divided in their priorities. The growth of the Roden administration and the Blaque-led SDII is directly linked to the threat the State poses. Without the threat of Caldari ships and soldiers, the increasingly single-minded Federation government will find itself assailed on all sides by its people, demanding reductions in military spending and the security state and demanding the government pay attention to their small concerns. Corporations across Placid, Essence, Verge Vendor, and Solitude will once again come to us for quality goods and not feel that they have failed in their patriotic duties.

The way to de-claw the Federation is not through war. A conflict, a wound fresh in the minds of the mob only strengthens their resolve.

This is an utopia, Nederland-haan. You cannot win a war by waving hand and smiling to your enemy. If you do, you either will be killed or subjugated to their will.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Phox Jorkarzul
Deep Void Merc Syndicate
#59 - 2013-04-27 07:39:23 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:

And it is absolutely accepted to glorify those, who earned this. Those, like Executor Heth, and those, like Admiral Tovil-Toba.


Tovil a hero...kills 2 million people and he is hero. women, children and the helpless and he is hero...

Blasters for life

https://neverpheedthetroll.blogspot.com

TomHorn
Horn Brothers Holdings Inc.
#60 - 2013-04-27 08:14:12 UTC
Quote:
But why do you oppose meritocracy to military dictatorship?
You don't buy your ranks. You aren't elected for your rank by some foolish mob of voters. And you definitely do not inherit your rank from your parents.
You have to EARN your rank. And for some positions, you even have to pass special training or education. You see, the military organization is one of the best and strongest forms of meritocracy.


With the meritocracy of the Mega corporations and all the different political views of the CEO's , liberal, anti-provist, provist, concerns for their own individual corporations the State as a whole can lose direction in the best way forward.

Id rather see a strong patriotic leader governing the State (military dictator) and doing what is best for the State as a whole during periods of war.