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New tier 3 BCs

Author
To mare
Advanced Technology
#1 - 2011-11-01 01:58:46 UTC
arent they a bit a bit OP?
the actual BC we have in EVE are already one of the best ship class to pvp in
they all use bonused L turrets/launchers
they have 33% more speed and a bit more agility over t1/t2 BCs
they also have a good slot layout.


the only balancing factor i can think is they will have really bad fitting stats so you can put almost only weapons on them or price.
what do you think?
i really like them my only concern is the might render BC/HAC/BS useless since they they step a bit too much in all those 3 class of ships
Kaeh
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2011-11-01 02:03:12 UTC
The balance is in the tank. EHP is so small you could use harsh words and they would explode. Evil
To mare
Advanced Technology
#3 - 2011-11-01 02:11:19 UTC
if they are balanced by the tank they wont make BS useless at least (not more than what they already areBig smile).
but the comparison vs BC and HAC could be tricky
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2011-11-01 02:17:49 UTC
To mare wrote:
if they are balanced by the tank they wont make BS useless at least (not more than what they already areBig smile).
but the comparison vs BC and HAC could be tricky


They might obsolete some HACs in certain specific situations.
Soporo
#5 - 2011-11-01 02:25:20 UTC
Tbh, I just don't get why they chose this class to deliver new ships to.

Anyway, I seriously doubt the Naga will be Op unless you fill the mids with painters, use Rigors and Flares in the rig slots and have someone webbing your target. You'll still die like a dog to anything, probably pretty damn quickly.

Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats. - H.L. Mencken

To mare
Advanced Technology
#6 - 2011-11-01 02:57:27 UTC
Soporo wrote:
Tbh, I just don't get why they chose this class to deliver new ships to.

Anyway, I seriously doubt the Naga will be Op unless you fill the mids with painters, use Rigors and Flares in the rig slots and have someone webbing your target. You'll still die like a dog to anything, probably pretty damn quickly.


the naga with the explosion velocity bonus will be able some BC (drakes and shield BCs) for very good damage with just 1TP+1web and probably you wont have much grid left after weapons so tank its not a option, i can already melt BCs with my standard typhoon with 1TP+web and it dont have the velocity bonus so it wont be that bad.
the tornado will be awesome, incredible damage projection with falloff bonus on 8 rof bonused gun, it mean you can totally forget about TE just use 2 gyro 2nano and you will probably do a vagabond like speed with better dps (only downside its if you get scrammed a frig can kill you because of no drones and no neut).
the talos will be the ultimate gank-mobile 90% web and 8 bonused large blaster. idk if anyone remember how BS with old school double web where used to instapop any frig and make short work of any cruiser sized thing under the 10 km range (and now blaster will have a tracking bonus too) even if you dont have a tank you will probablly be able to melt any HAC with this baby.
the oracle? hit other stuff for full damage at 20-24km with multifrequency + tracking bonus and a good speed to kite everything thats not a frig or a stabber/cynabal hull
clamslayer
Doomheim
#7 - 2011-11-01 04:08:19 UTC  |  Edited by: clamslayer
Teir 3 battlecruisers are all d!ck, that is never a good thing
Goose99
#8 - 2011-11-01 04:17:16 UTC
Kaeh wrote:
The balance is in the tank. EHP is so small you could use harsh words and they would explode. Evil


They're faster than most cruisers, while having more ehp and far more dps.P
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Wardecs Without Borders
#9 - 2011-11-01 04:49:38 UTC  |  Edited by: FloppieTheBanjoClown
They will have some serious drawbacks, in that battleships will vastly out-tank them.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.

DarkAegix
Acetech Systems
#10 - 2011-11-01 05:22:37 UTC
Goose99 wrote:
Kaeh wrote:
The balance is in the tank. EHP is so small you could use harsh words and they would explode. Evil


They're faster than most cruisers, while having more ehp and far more dps.P

I imagine they'll be less agile, with a higher sig, though, so it's not like they'll make cruisers obsolete. Blink
Soporo
#11 - 2011-11-01 05:28:52 UTC
To mare wrote:
Soporo wrote:
Tbh, I just don't get why they chose this class to deliver new ships to.

Anyway, I seriously doubt the Naga will be Op unless you fill the mids with painters, use Rigors and Flares in the rig slots and have someone webbing your target. You'll still die like a dog to anything, probably pretty damn quickly.


the naga with the explosion velocity bonus will be able some BC (drakes and shield BCs) for very good damage with just 1TP+1web and probably you wont have much grid left after weapons so tank its not a option, i can already melt BCs with my standard typhoon with 1TP+web and it dont have the velocity bonus so it wont be that bad.
the tornado will be awesome, incredible damage projection with falloff bonus on 8 rof bonused gun, it mean you can totally forget about TE just use 2 gyro 2nano and you will probably do a vagabond like speed with better dps (only downside its if you get scrammed a frig can kill you because of no drones and no neut).
the talos will be the ultimate gank-mobile 90% web and 8 bonused large blaster. idk if anyone remember how BS with old school double web where used to instapop any frig and make short work of any cruiser sized thing under the 10 km range (and now blaster will have a tracking bonus too) even if you dont have a tank you will probablly be able to melt any HAC with this baby.
the oracle? hit other stuff for full damage at 20-24km with multifrequency + tracking bonus and a good speed to kite everything thats not a frig or a stabber/cynabal hull


Quote:
The Naga... I just don't see a reason to fly it. At all. If you fit it with blasters for close-range work, then you'd be better off with a Talos, even ignoring the fact that you'd be better off hanging at 20 km with a Tornado anyway. For ranged work, I suspect the Scorch Oracle will be better than a rail-Naga (I haven't analysed the fits yet), and the artillery Tornado will be very popular too. The torp fit is basically a more mobile, even more weakly tanked torp Raven. It's got nice DPS, but applying that DPS to BCs will require significant painter support. Why bother, when you can just use a Tornado? It'll have a very niche role as a POS-whacker in C1 WHs, using HBT rigs and Rage to sit at 30 km, but it's hard to see the point of it otherwise.


^^^ What Gypsio said in the other thread.


TLDR: In comparison to the other new BC's the Naga will suck hind tit in every way.

Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats. - H.L. Mencken

To mare
Advanced Technology
#12 - 2011-11-01 07:12:13 UTC  |  Edited by: To mare
for the records Naga will do 950dps with faction ammo up to 25km and a mwd speed w/o any speed mods around the 1500ms
doesn't seems that bad to me.
Ok it wont hit for full damage (and none of the others tier BC will do) ship below its size but its still even to good.
i only hope it wont be able to use cruise launchers or we will have the premier pawnmobile for the shield-gang



PS i'm not saying its the best but is a good one.

edit: my point is not that the naga or the oracle are bad but the tornado and talos being too damn good and if they stay that way goodbye minmatar/gallente/amarr HAC you are now useless
nate555
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#13 - 2011-11-01 07:31:34 UTC
looking forward to torp fun
Soporo
#14 - 2011-11-01 15:23:40 UTC
Good luck trying to apply half of that 900 dps with just a single painter and a web. Oh look, we're now stuck back in web range again, might as well fly a Blaster boat, eh?

Quote:
only hope it wont be able to use cruise launchers or we will have the premier pawnmobile for the shield-gang


You said Cruise and Pwn in the same sentence, I do believe you've lost your mind. Shocked

Unless shooting 249km with a 30 second delayed damage flight time are pwn. Better off getting 6 anemic hvy rail shots off in that time, even.

Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats. - H.L. Mencken

Cambarus
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2011-11-01 15:33:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Cambarus
Given how fragile they are I really don't see the tier 3 BCs being used en masse, you'd still be better off with HACs/drakes/BSs. If it turns out that they ARE useful in groups then you'll most likely see them used as anti-drake weapons, because with their large guns and no ehp they will fall quite easily to hac gangs.

EDIT:

Soporo wrote:
Good luck trying to apply half of that 900 dps with just a single painter and a web. Oh look, we're now stuck back in web range again, might as well fly a Blaster boat, eh?

Quote:
only hope it wont be able to use cruise launchers or we will have the premier pawnmobile for the shield-gang


You said Cruise and Pwn in the same sentence, I do believe you've lost your mind. Shocked

Unless shooting 249km with a 30 second delayed damage flight time are pwn. Better off getting 6 anemic hvy rail shots off in that time, even.
You are aware of the fact that drakes have been wreaking havoc all over nullsec for at least 6 months now yeh? And they do this despite having travel time on their weapons. A drake with less tank and cruise missiles would be an interesting ship, to say the least.
Gazmin VanBurin
Boma Bull Corp
#16 - 2011-11-01 17:54:09 UTC
Im not the type to math-hammer it out but ill be interested in flying the naga with blasters with null loaded, reasonable and mega like tracking will be fun.

Tolos is likely to be just like the shield brutix and the gank diemost, always called primary, so tank the begibis out of it and use it as a heavy tackler bait ship.
Archare
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2011-11-01 18:30:13 UTC
Seems like the new Tier 3 Battlecruisers are mini versions of the pirate faction BS's with no tank cept for the naga.

Talos = mini vindi
Tornado = mini mach
Oracle = mini nightmare

no?
Klymer
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2011-11-01 19:27:12 UTC
Hmm...high dps, a snare ability and no armor. Why does this sound so familiar?
Soporo
#19 - 2011-11-02 00:33:10 UTC
Quote:
You said Cruise and Pwn in the same sentence, I do believe you've lost your mind. Unless shooting 249km with a 30 second delayed damage flight time are pwn. Better off getting 6 anemic hvy rail shots off in that time, even.


Quote:
You are aware of the fact that drakes have been wreaking havoc all over nullsec for at least 6 months now yeh? And they do this despite having travel time on their weapons. A drake with less tank and cruise missiles would be an interesting ship, to say the least.


Gdman forums ate my post.

What Drake fits and what HML ranges? Can't be far as it gets no range bonus.
You cannot compare hml shooting out to 100? or so (with rigs) to Cruise ranges, at all.

There's a huge ass difference between a few seconds and THIRTY seconds in pvp. Not to mention the Cruises fail explosion velocity and radius compared to Hml, even on BS sized.

People fly Drakes because Ravens and Rokhs suck hind tit. The reason I mentioned failsniping with cruises is that's all it's good for, in a PvE environment only. Oh, maybe for a pos shoot.

Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats. - H.L. Mencken

Erzengel Micheal
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#20 - 2011-11-02 00:44:12 UTC
I actually find most of this threadt o be funny yet sad.

I think CCP has finally made a battlecruiser.

Battlecrusiers, historically speaking, were the brain child of Sir Jackie Fisher (maybe Fischer????). He theorized that a ship with a battleships weapons but a crusiers speed would be a very valuble asset to any fleet in a scouting or raiding operation. Now in theory he is correct. If the battlecrusier can not outgun and destroy it's target, then it has the speed to get away from it.

In historic practice this was proven to be true. The unfortunate thing for battlecruisers was the fact that fleet commanders decided to use them as substitute battleships. The Battle of the Skaggerat, or as the britsh would say the Battle of Jutland, proved that they could not stand in a battleline.

Now for those of you that are having fun with this "I will do this....or I won't do that..." All I have to say is great I don't really care what you do or don't do.

I am quite interested in the possibilities that this concept has made me consider. It may prove that they are garbage and not worth my time. But then again maybe they exactly what they are intended to be. We will not know until they come out and we try them.

I personally love Battlecrusier PVP. And if used the way most of us currently use the Battlecruisers already in the game then they may be great weapons. We just have to wait and find out. And I will find out.

Have a nice time and fly "safe". After all this is just a game, right?