Player Features and Ideas Discussion

All that will do is unbalance the mechanics of the damage application...[/quote]


bro this dmg upgrade is like the artilery one ...u got tons of dmg but crap tracking u cant apply it ..is usless ...they should make decent dmg and applyable ..also where is the balance between this ships i dono tbh ..tempest doese 750 dps ..mega doese 1.2 k apoc doese 800 or so and raven 1k on papper but more like 400 in a real fight ...even a bc doese more dmg or close to a bs im curious after this patch how the ships will be on paper wich will do what dmg i know most people wont agree ...but in the nano age everything was fine ...missiles did good dmg at good range ..torpedos had good range good dmg ...the -90 webs were awsome the nos actually nosing also the 5 ogre eos worked fine ..when they killed the nano age they killed not only solo but command ships as well ...and from nano age we moved to buff age ..and in 7-8 years we will prob move to active tank age or some other **** like that but unfortunatlly they never think this upgrades ..for instance heres another balance for u ccp ..implant sets ..when u killed nos u basicly killed talisman implants ..compared to slaves / crystals / snakes they are usless ....i didnt specify halo cuz they were usless since day 1 ...oh and here is another good one for u why slave set work on capitals but crystals dont ..think that one also each "balance" u do kills something else and last but not least the ideea of the rattlesnake beeing heavy drones + missiles is very silly the only thing u manage to did there is to kill people ratting in guristas space ..cuz when u get a rattle bpc it sells for 350 m ..but when u get a vindi bpc it sells for 1.2 bil ..also dont get me started on plex drops ..where 8/10 on guristas has 1/20 chance to drop pith b mods and when it doese it drops **** like a exp hardner ...the way i see the patches u are doing now ...is an excuse ..u killed everything in the past and trying to make up for it now by trying to undo some things u done

For the current changes, I see you just increases the dps and try to reduce the interval from launch to hit. But I would say neither of them are on the point. You just can't make the dps monster high and/or nix the flight time, then the uselessness of cruise missile would probably stay as it is.

In the era of logistics, a 10s damage delay means unless you alpha it, otherwise you are doing nothing, that's the key point why there is no fleet use cruise missile.

The changes could better to be:
Increase the ROF to 22s with full skill, with around 550 DPS, and it will have about 12000 DPH.
Increase the explosion radius for 10%

This will actually make the cruise missile useful in either PVP or PVE

It will not take over the role of current alpha ships, because:
1, Missile takes time to fly so it can not kill without tackle, and you don't expect to use it to fight back a sniper fleet.
2, Missiles are vulnerable to smartbombs

Why it can be useful? Because even though the missile will takes time to fly, which may cause people to warp out/ call logi, you still have the chance to alpha the enemy or deal a significant stab that will help your team.

Internal testing revealed that cruise missiles will be far from useless, even at smaller ships.

Oh I agree with you, but the problem has never been with the adding or negating of buffs but how the formula calculated damage based off of the various factors in the first place... it is busted... otherwise you are just going to spend years trying to fine tune a desired result by what is actually happening with no real results because there is too much overlap in the equation which then leads to this:

ie. a ship velocity of zero should always give the result of 100% damage application... (that is a "1" in this relationship: (Ev/Er * sig/vel)^(log(drf) / log(5.5) but it doesn't, Why? because the formula will alway choose the lowest number (generally any other number >1) as the base dmg multiplier. It is suppose to be an accurate representation of what your skills and ship abilties can do but then doesn't get used...

What ever they have setup for the missle system doesn't properly apply damage which is why it doesn't work for PvP... its not the flight time (since you can choose the dmg type and will always hit), but the fact that the damage you do does not live up to your potential... At least that seems to be what I gathered from the sum of the complaints...

I've been puzzling through this conundrum for the past week or so and have basically come up with very little... it is not an easy solution....

Plz explain why its not wrong if i need a TP for soothing someone in my own size?
How they gonna do more damage/projection combination?

This makes me really sad.

Yes, I understand how they work... I'm not arguing with what you are implying... big missles should not do full damage to small ships (just unbalances the game)

I am merely stating the obvious... that the formula for calculating damage is broken... those big missles are not doing an accurate representation of thier damage on those ships... so what is the point of training skills and using something that doesn't reflect them...

In this equation: Damage = D * Min( 1, (S/E), (S/E*Ve/Vt) ^ (ln(drf)/ln(5.5)) )

if S/E<1 (say for example equal to 0.111 =11%)

and (S/E*Ve/Vt) ^ (ln(drf)/ln(5.5)) <1 (same example = 0.23333 =23%)

guess which factor it chooses as the base multiplier? 11%

When in reality based off of your skills and abilities it should be 23%

Busted.... this is why you can never do a 100% damage unless you unbalance the equation enough to make both of those previous mentioned examples >1 theyby making the "1" in the equation the lowest min. multiplier (a 100%)

I mean don't get me wrong, this equation has worked for a decade (maybe less??) and it will still work... but if you want to carry onto another decade then a change is needed to bring all damage into scope of viable PvP....

They should be outsourcing the solution to this formula dilemma to an outside source for a better representation of its damage application... contract an aeronautical engineering firm and tap their best minds for a complex and explicit solution as opposed to this simple implicit one.... then pay them for their time....

why not make missile launchers scriptable... thus giving them specific application but simultaneously applying penalties. Wouldn't this also solve the issue that they are either a good pve weapon but a ****** pvp one or vice versa. For example, allow for a target painter script that increases your current target painter's efficiency/falloff (or whatnot) at the expense of cpu need for said target painter... or a ROF script at the expense of a -1 missile slot availability. You can even make that useless little "launcher" icon in the fitting screen hold the script and show the icon :P

Now I'm not saying I'm the almighty genius in ideas here, its just my thoughts. I may be correct in my suggestion, I may be not. In the end its just an idea I'm throwing out here.

No, it doesnt make sense to make something scriptable for a penalty, because the script should give an advantage or a swift in the bonus [Like in Tracking Computer, or Damping].

Just keep the launchers as they are and all the other modules. The modules are not broken, its the formula for missile dmg which is broken.

What? Rockets HAM's and torps don't have precision ammo, they have high damage rage ammo that gets increased damage in exchange for nerfed range and damage application, and javelin ammo that gets increased range in exchange for lowered damage.

Okay guys i did some math because CCP cant do it right.

My own missiles Formula would like that:

Real Damage = Damage * max(min(Y/vel,Sig/Er,1),cos(min((vel-Y)/vel*DRF, 3.1415))/2+0.5) [Formula 1]

Y = Sig * Ev / Er
vel = ship's velocity
sig = ship's signature
Er = Explosion Radius of missile
Ev = Explosion Velocity of missile
DRF = Damge reducing factor

this formula is working like the old one, but it use the cosinus function for the reducing dmg of missiles.
The CCP Formula is using basically this function:
f(x) = (1/x)^y

it looks like this:
http://s1.directupload.net/file/d/3237/torh2x4v_png.htm

if you use a cosinus function the dmg application would be much smoother.
http://s14.directupload.net/file/d/3237/tofxjtwg_png.htm

if you compare both you would see it:
http://s1.directupload.net/file/d/3237/qkt5u7xe_png.htm

Formula 1 can be adjust by DRF-Factor, if DRF = 1.5 then you get the following graph for dmg application. Y = 200.
http://s7.directupload.net/file/d/3237/3f6v8759_png.htm

Every line is 100 speed. If you increase your speed by 2 then your missiles will deal 10% less dmg.
- 300 more speed: 23% less dmg
- 400 more speed: 38% less dmg
- 500 more speed: 55% less dmg

Of course the DRF must be adjust, this are just some random values to see how it works.

Edit:
The important part for the dmg application is when the graph is cutting the value of 1 and afterwards.