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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Fix Ammo
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Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#1 - 2013-04-24 23:38:00 UTC
T1/faction ammo is quite possibly the most broken thing in the game. On all weapon systems save rails and lasers (weapon systems with little falloff), nothing other than t2 or the closest-range ammo is even remotely useful. Even with lasers and rails, the use of t1 ammo types that aren't multi/AM are sharply limited, and beyond mid-range are completely useless.

There are two fundamental problems here.

One is that t1/faction ammo only affects optimal. For obvious reasons, weapons that have a major falloff component (all projectiles + blasters) don't really care about this penalty at all. While sometimes it might make sense to load uranium into rails (rarely), you will never, ever, for any reason, use depleted uranium in autos. The fix here is obvious: Any multiplier given to optimal should also apply to falloff. Autos and perhaps artillery would require a boost to base falloff or lessened penalties on the ammo.


The second problem is that you give up an absolutely silly amount of damage to use longer-ranged ammo. Let's look at the best case scenario: Pulse lasers (high optimal, virtually nonexistant falloff). IN Microwave actually gives you less range than Scorch, while only doing 62% of the damage. You give up more than a third of your DPS in exchange for slightly better tracking at a range where tracking rarely matters anyway. Damage on the longer-ranged ammo should be ramped up a bit (more for longer-ranged ammos, of course). To use the Scorch example, IN MW should porbably do 85-90% of the damage of Scorch instead of 60%.

Thoughts?
Vesan Terakol
Trollgrin Sadface
Dark Taboo
#2 - 2013-04-25 00:05:20 UTC
Faction ammo seems OK, offering a damage boost over the t1 and not needing the prerequisites of t2 (and is crazy expensive for that). You really shouldn't try to balance t1 (altho being faction) equipment in lines of t2.
Then, maybe the drops of long ranged ammo from the rat elites (Dominations and Arch Angels being the example) needs a look at. Does anyone even use those? I have more proton, CL and Nuke ammo than i could use in the next year if i use it exclusively and nobody would buy it.
Jonas Sukarala
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#3 - 2013-04-25 00:07:55 UTC
The fact that for most weapons you only ever use T2 ammo or one or two faction ammo does tell the story.

'Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line' CCP Ytterbium Nerf missile range into place where is the TD missile change?  ..projectiles should use capacitor. ABC's should be T2 HABC and nerf web strength its still too high

Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#4 - 2013-04-25 00:10:39 UTC
Vesan Terakol wrote:
Faction ammo seems OK, offering a damage boost over the t1 and not needing the prerequisites of t2 (and is crazy expensive for that). You really shouldn't try to balance t1 (altho being faction) equipment in lines of t2.
Then, maybe the drops of long ranged ammo from the rat elites (Dominations and Arch Angels being the example) needs a look at. Does anyone even use those? I have more proton, CL and Nuke ammo than i could use in the next year if i use it exclusively and nobody would buy it.


Faction ammo relative to t1 ammo is okay, specifically because faction ammo is just t1 ammo + 15% damage.

T2 ammo is not general purpose ammo. It is specialized ammo. Faction ammo is standard general-purpose ammo, and faction ammo has the same problem as flat t1 ammo in that only the closest-ranged variant is useful at all.
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#5 - 2013-04-25 08:50:22 UTC
Yes, faction ammo is OK. No-one uses faction EMP or Fusion? Or faction missiles/rockets/torps? These are some of my trading alt's best sellers in certain areas. Personally, I rarely leave the station without some faction antimatter.

Kahega, what's wrong with the Rifterlings website?

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Thorian Crystal
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2013-04-25 18:00:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Thorian Crystal
It is annoying when for some reason the reloading of ammo crystal doesn't work. It just keeps complaining and I have to open fitting and cargo and drag and drop an ammo crystal, then close the windows and continue shooting. This gets very annoying especially if the cargo hold is full of used ammos for close, mid, and long ranges, and you have 6 to 8 guns. Also, it gets annoying to have to choose between used and not used ammo while I switch the crystals from long range to close. Of course I want to use the used ammo first. Then there is a missclick and several not used ammo becomes used even though I have not shot a single time.

Please fix.
Luc Chastot
#7 - 2013-04-25 18:20:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Luc Chastot
Hybrid ammo should be divided up in 2 categories:

High damage, low RoF, standard cap consumption and low damage, high RoF, low cap consumption.

These 2 categories should also be divided up in a set of ranges, like this:

Average optimal, high falloff.
High optimal, average falloff.
Low optimal, very high falloff.
Very high optimal, low falloff.

This way, both blasters and rails would be more viable, by having options that play better to their strengths.

Edit: Also, T2 ammo could be even more specialized; Null, for instance, could be short optimal, very high falloff, very high alpha, low RoF with a tracking penalty.

Make it idiot-proof and someone will make a better idiot.