Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Well caldari used to be popular once, look what happened to them.

During msot of eve history they were knewn as Failmatar

l2 read. they alreayd stated phoon will be like an oversized talwar/cyclone aka more missle <3 for it.

Directly in response to the OP and general commenting:

In general, Minmatar has been more or less worthy of the "winmatar" title for quite some time. From Hurricane and Tornado to various other subjects. This however clearly had to do with how CCP introduced them, not essentially because players knew how to exploit the advantages to the max. Nonetheless, something had to be done.

It is good that you are reminding to not forget the underpowered ships (like Rifter - seriously, it is NOT sufficiently effective compared to Slasher). It be good though to star a thread as a montage of which ships are underwhelming in your opinion.


A row of T1 ships -especially frigs - are much better now. Just of course, the Rifter is now rather redundant as a tackler since Slasher can do it the job now. People been saying Rifter should be a pure dmg dealer with Rocket+Small Guns dmg bonuses (including me who said to nerf its overhall eHP considerably to balance out such offensive aspects). But that's a different topic.


Just something to keep in mind too:
Also, EVE's ships are undergoing something that we tend to see in other MMORPGs (or had seen) - a simply-as-it-is-called normalization , which was frequently applied in World of Warcraft. In that game, it did mostly more harm than good.

From what I've learned and seen over the decade, it is a common thing to happen when devs or such want to add real balance to the general "balance". There's also the common issue that EVE has just like any other MMO; everybody (us the rabid zerg of paying customers) has their imagination of how things should be, including the developing company (CCP here), which makes it of course extremely diffictult to apply things for the greater good - because there will always be somebody screaming.


That said... Generalization/normalization helps certain ships, but it is clearly not the real solution.

Somewhere, it was very good that Mimmatar is getting these changes, but there is clearly a imbalance on the weight of changes vs the other racial factions' ships (and I won't be surprised to see some trolling happneing in the pages before my post).

Of course, we should not just be focused on Minmatar here as the game is about the four playable nations and their naval vessels, but it is clear that if you draw the lines and check the numbers, there are clearly more nerfy aspects on the Minmatar side. Just keep in mind that since Minmatar has been a lot of Winmatar that that is why there are so many negative changes.

However, most of those changes - should they be necessary or not - are not helping much to the overall gameplay.

Personally speaking, I miss the time when Minmatar was considered nightmare mode. I doubt the term minmatar-hard is that known but it back then Minnie was not Winmatar (though this was before the speed-nerf age too and when ships like Vagabonds were VERY hard to catch). I wish we could get back to this somewhat, just a bit. The game is better with the Speed Nerf, but there needs to be more done on a different subject regarding "Warpouts, getting tackled and tanking".


To me, there needs to be a general clean slate and rehash on the specific "naval philosophies" of the respective factions. Even with Tiericide, there has to be clear lines. Right now, the edges between each group are too blurry.

One major problem however when talking about Minmatar and them being underpowered post-Odyssey is that that will only call for others bringing all the advantages of Minmatar ships, like no-cap burn on Turrets, agile/fast and many many other debatable subjects to Minnie in general.

Lastly, this sound like harsh generalization, but I do have the impression many players only want to see Damage bonuses and even more damage applied to the favorite ships. And that is where the game will get boring - and I have great concerns that major Cruise Missile buff is going to backfire.

bruhuhu
:( poor winmatar cant dominate everything now bruhuhu
yes nerfing to the ground... sure
mael didnt get any nerf ,while it is just as viable as the rokh for fleets, and outshines it at smaller fights
the thyphoon is just a better raven , yes i can totally see how matar is so ruined
tempest oh no if it is too weak ccp will buff it :( why are u doing this to matar ccp? why are u ruining this whole race?
bruhuhu

this and several other whinematar posts are about when you take out a candy from a child ,as it ate too much already, sure he will whine to give it back to him

Something else I forgot.
Just to be safe though, even without those changes or buffs to - say - Minmatar BSes, they'd still be capable of kicking booty as it depends more on the pilot. Each to their own in this case.

Anti-whinematar trolling or legit critism, I'd still want to add that one should not forget about the actual, err, extension of the viability of ships that the Tiericide is bringing along. However, it has to be DONE WELL, SUFFCIENTLY.

Aside to the fact that we want all our favorite ships to be kick***, the other necessity for the Tiericide is that all ships are more accepted to fleets. Seriously, if there is one thing I do not want to see anymore, then its the frequent One-Ship policy found in various 0.0 alliance fights. Doctrines in general are cool, but it really gets boring when you can't take nothing else. This is of course due to the respective and individual alliance, but it still has its roots to the ships and their bonuses.

Every ship should be viable enough to be taken along - even more if that Capsuleer dedicated himself to it.


I hope that we can see more of this dedication factor in the future -- like how it was with Professions and the old version of Probing; it was "complicated, dull and time consuming" but those who knew how to use it were awesome and desired too. Now, everybody is a "prober" and this was more or less due to the generalization/normalization factor.

So. This should be more about getting "undesirable" ships into the spotlight.

Hopefully we can see such with ships. And I mean really specialization and not "I have LVL5 on all ship skills". Has to be in a way that there is a wide selection of skillbooks (or even implants) - but that too is for a different topic and thread.

I think the balance in general is great.

I didn't choose Minmatar because I wanted to play EZ-mode. I chose them because I thought the female character models were the pretiest. Hurricane was OP. Rifter was most flown. yeah - I'm desperatly sad to see them go - But trainning the Merlin and blasters isn't really a hardship, is it?. The other reason I played Minmatar was because of the Hurricane model - and yes I have a researched Hurricane BPO. . . I hurt about these changes. Not sure what the new FOTM battlecruiser will be yet - but I'll just start flying that.

I still believe the balance is good.

What I'm really worried about is the lack of racial traits really being that obvious anymore, or even not being present at all anymore. But that's just meh really - not that bothered. Does it really matter? The ships will still have their own racial colour schemes and some weapons that are from the racial lines.

The main thing I'm worried about is that most ships are becoming kind-of identical, Versatility is being stamped on harder than the Minmatar in some ways. I feel this is removing some fun. I think that will hurt the game more than imbalance.

But generally - Non of the changes have been that harsh. The TE changes affect all weapons. They do. But they affect, (via falloff), Minmatar more than any other - but my analysis in that thread shows it knocks 1KM or something like 4% damage @ the 1KM delta for minmatar. Basically it's almost nothing. And skill at piloting and keeping range will account for more than 1KM distance from the target. What really hammers the point home is when you compare before and after to the other weapons of similar size and see that the Minmatar's competative advantage remains constant - and even increases against medium lasers quicker after their optimal than it did before.

Also - buffs to Lasers? Analysis done by a Pandemic Legion person - it's like the second post in that thread shows that the massive "Buff" to large lasers actually only results in an extra 60 seconds or so firing time on a real fit - WITH a Cap booster running. Not a massive change. i feel bad for the Amarr - but not that bad because they are scum. :P

Dude - Minmatar will rock still.

We don't need better stats. Better guns. More speed or tank. We don't rely on any of this. We don't even need more skill than other pilots.

We just use Awesome. (But please tell them to leave my Camo Space Slug the F### alone :P - Please)

YAY! Eve-kill statistics are definately reliable. Jove on the rise! Fear capsules and not maels and mallers!