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Advanced Spaceship Command about to become a broken skill
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Auduin Samson
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2013-04-23 19:19:02 UTC
I'm going to preface this by saying that I did a quick search and could not find any similar topic. If this has already been discussed, just point me there and it will be appreciated.

Onto further business though, Advanced Spaceship Command seems like a massive time sink of a skill. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I could not find a single ship that will require ASC at a level lower than 5 after Odyssey is released. This would be fine if it applied a bonus to all ships, but the agility bonus only goes to ships that specifically require this skill, making it an all-or-nothing kind of deal. In effect, there will now be a skill that is entirely useless until almost a month has been spent training it.

Now, I recognize that with re balancing going on to the extent that it is, there are going to be some loose ends like this, so I present a couple solutions that may work to remedy this in the future. I'm interested in hearing what others think.

1) Get rid of ASC and make Spaceship Command a much slower-training skill with higher bonuses. For example, if all Tech 1 subcaps required SC1 and Tech 2/Tech 3/Capitals required higher levels. The downside, of course, is a lot of further rebalancing would be needed.

2) Make ASC's bonus apply to all ships. This way you actually gain something usable during training with levels 1-4. The downside here is that higher SP players would have a further advantage over lower SP players, but that isn't exactly a new phenomenon in Eve.

I would like to hear what everyone else has to say about this, especially other ideas for how it can be "fixed."

PS: Sorry if this ends up double posting. Had all sorts of issues getting it to work.
Ryuu Shi
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#2 - 2013-04-24 04:52:47 UTC
I do recall flying a freighter with ASC at least to level 2 does help it with its ability to turn better.... could be wrong though.

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Sable Moran
Moran Light Industries
#3 - 2013-04-24 12:06:04 UTC
ASC is required at level 1 to fly a freighter so that skill has its uses for levels 1 through 4 too.

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Caldari 5
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. S.A.S
Affirmative.
#4 - 2013-04-24 12:13:01 UTC
I believe that he is referring to this
http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/the-great-skill-change-of-blessed-2013/
Quote:
Now requires Advanced Spaceship Command 5 instead of 1

Meaning that there will be no ships after the expansion that will requires ASC 1-4, and the only reason to train it is for Freighters and Capitals, both of which will require the skill at 5
Velicitia
XS Tech
#5 - 2013-04-24 12:41:10 UTC
yeah, that's a pretty dumb change ... doesn't the Orca use it at L1 though?

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Zor'katar
Matari Recreation
#6 - 2013-04-24 12:45:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Zor'katar
Velicitia wrote:
yeah, that's a pretty dumb change ... doesn't the Orca use it at L1 though?

Apparently not (never flown one, but the requirements are pictured in the linked article).

It looks like the issue was brought up on the comments for that devblog entry, but I can't bring myself to sift through 53 pages to see if it was addressed. I agree... pretty silly way to do it. ASC<5 is only going to be meaningful for those with the skills injected before the change.

Edit: Might this have more chance of being addressed if it was in the Features and Ideas Discussion forum where all the Odyssey changes are being discussed?
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#7 - 2013-04-24 13:26:46 UTC
hm, guess it's time to inject freighters skill books on my hauler toons.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#8 - 2013-04-25 00:05:13 UTC
It's always been a time sink, nothing is changing.
(cmon, no one cares about freighters.)

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ZAKURELL0 LINDA
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#9 - 2013-04-25 03:20:31 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
It's always been a time sink, nothing is changing.
(cmon, no one cares about freighters.)

the gankers do

RIP Iron Lady
Angelique Duchemin
Team Evil
#10 - 2013-04-25 04:48:29 UTC
This is like the T1 skill bonuses on T2 ships.

They all have level from 1-5 and offer a bonus based on level but all T2 ships require the skill to be at 5 anyway so no one will ever have the 1-4 bonuses on the ships.

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Zor'katar
Matari Recreation
#11 - 2013-04-25 12:28:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Zor'katar
Angelique Duchemin wrote:
This is like the T1 skill bonuses on T2 ships.

Not exactly. The T1 ship command skills still have benefit at <5: better bonuses on T1 ships. After the change, ASC will have zero benefit at <5 for anyone who hadn't pre-injected any Freighter skills.
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#12 - 2013-04-25 17:24:24 UTC
Auduin Samson wrote:
I would like to hear what everyone else has to say about this, especially other ideas for how it can be "fixed."

Personally I do not think there is anything to fix. It's a skill I take to V. Almost all my haulers have it at V and the last one will be there by 2013-06-05 20:50.

Remove standings and insurance.
Caldari 5
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. S.A.S
Affirmative.
#13 - 2013-04-25 18:01:33 UTC
Angelique Duchemin wrote:
This is like the T1 skill bonuses on T2 ships.

They all have level from 1-5 and offer a bonus based on level but all T2 ships require the skill to be at 5 anyway so no one will ever have the 1-4 bonuses on the ships.

Yes but in the case of T1 skill bonuses on T2 ships, the skill still increases the effectiveness of the T1 ships when you keep training it. However in the case of ASC it will effect no ship until it is trained to 5.
Auduin Samson
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2013-04-28 16:23:11 UTC
Mara Pahrdi wrote:
Auduin Samson wrote:
I would like to hear what everyone else has to say about this, especially other ideas for how it can be "fixed."

Personally I do not think there is anything to fix. It's a skill I take to V. Almost all my haulers have it at V and the last one will be there by 2013-06-05 20:50.


I agree, it's a good skill to have at 5. However, I think it should have at least some use before it reaches Level 5.

Also, it isn't at all like T1 bonuses for T2 ships. Yes, the bonus only applies to T2 ships once you're fully trained in the T1 skills, but the T1 skills still have a use until then. This change is going to make ASC completely useless until it is fully trained.
Ryuu Shi
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#15 - 2013-04-30 06:20:33 UTC
I suppose the easy fix is to make ASC 1 - 5 also affect BS hulls.. this could make using them a lot more appealing in PVP then...

_**Noob **_isn't really a status, it's the online equivalent of a 5-year old calling you a poopy fart head.

  • Sun Tzu
Caldari 5
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. S.A.S
Affirmative.
#16 - 2013-04-30 08:14:28 UTC
Ryuu Shi wrote:
I suppose the easy fix is to make ASC 1 - 5 also affect BS hulls.. this could make using them a lot more appealing in PVP then...

Welcome to the thought process. :)

ASC 1-4 needs to be actually useful as something other than just pre-req to ASC5 and by extension then Freighters/Capitals etc

Ideally I would like to see ASC effect more than just BS+, ideally it would be useful for all ships, or heck maybe even just T2 ships, Advanced Spaceship Command for Advanced Spaceships kinda makes sense.

But all of these ideas are just to get the ball rolling on what might/would be good.
Lady Naween
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2013-04-30 13:37:47 UTC
Angelique Duchemin wrote:
This is like the T1 skill bonuses on T2 ships.

They all have level from 1-5 and offer a bonus based on level but all T2 ships require the skill to be at 5 anyway so no one will ever have the 1-4 bonuses on the ships.


You know unless you get podded with the wrong clone insurance and lose SP. :) So it can happen