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Summer expansion SP

First post
Author
Dave Stark
#381 - 2013-04-24 17:58:00 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Caxton Verticorda wrote:
If you start training now there is enough time to get Battlecruisers 5 and Destroyers 5 before the changes hit.
(Probably a repost since I cba to read through every other post, but hey.)

Only if you start NOW, are on a perfect perc/wil remap, and have +5s or are otherwise able to train at least 2700 sp/hr.
Otherwise no, you'll miss it and only be able to get up to battlecruisers 4, which should still be fine for most new players. Older players should have already known about and gotten the skills they need considering they've known about this change for a very long time.


if i've read the dev post correctly it says training in progress will be paused (not refunded) so even if you did start now, you will only have a day or two left to train (multiplied by 4) so even then you have what, a week at most of training to "catch up" with?
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#382 - 2013-04-24 18:00:53 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Caxton Verticorda wrote:
If you start training now there is enough time to get Battlecruisers 5 and Destroyers 5 before the changes hit.
(Probably a repost since I cba to read through every other post, but hey.)

Only if you start NOW, are on a perfect perc/wil remap, and have +5s or are otherwise able to train at least 2700 sp/hr.
Otherwise no, you'll miss it and only be able to get up to battlecruisers 4, which should still be fine for most new players. Older players should have already known about and gotten the skills they need considering they've known about this change for a very long time.


if i've read the dev post correctly it says training in progress will be paused (not refunded) so even if you did start now, you will only have a day or two left to train (multiplied by 4) so even then you have what, a week at most of training to "catch up" with?

They changed that?
This is what I last saw: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2149156#post2149156
"Only rational integers need apply."

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#383 - 2013-04-24 18:02:18 UTC
Nathalie LaPorte wrote:
Fixed.
Nope. You broke it again. Let's be charitable and just call it a strawman rather than outright lying and forgery. Let's also go back and repost the correct version since you have forgotten it, and see if you can get it right this time. Fiftyeleventh time is the charm, right?

P₁: If things are bad, they can be improved.
P₂: The skill tree is getting improved, according to Tippia.
C: The skill tree was bad, according to Tippia ← non sequitur.

Now, would you like to take a stab at proving me wrong about… well… anything? Or at least offer some argument towards that effect? Perhaps you would like to read up on what a “non sequitur” is, rather than rely on a very limited (and ultimately insufficient) dictionary definition? Maybe you can demonstrate how P₁ and P₂ actually leads to C? Or even better, how P₂ leads to C without P₁ — that would be interesting…

…or you can keep evading, further highlighting your inability to actually present a coherent argument.

Quote:
I agree
I know you do. It was established ages ago that you understand what the non sequitur was and why it was one, and that you've only been trying to hide this fact ever since. That's why you have to keep moving the goalposts and inject strawmen to stay afloat.

Quote:
thank you for admitting that you were wrong
Non sequitur.
Nathalie LaPorte
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#384 - 2013-04-24 18:05:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Nathalie LaPorte
Tippia wrote:
Nathalie LaPorte wrote:
Fixed.
Nope. You broke it again. Let's be charitable and just call it a strawman rather than outright lying and forgery,as only I, the mighty Tippia, am allowed to change other people's quotes willy-nilly.

Fixed.

good to know. You'll do anything to avoid having a real debate, won't you?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#385 - 2013-04-24 18:08:04 UTC
Nathalie LaPorte wrote:
Fixed.
Nope. You broke it again. Let's be charitable and just call it a strawman rather than outright lying and forgery.

Let's also go back and repost the actual question at hand since you have forgotten it, and see if you can get it right this time. Fiftytwelfth time is the charm, right?

P₁: If things are bad, they can be improved.
P₂: The skill tree is getting improved, according to Tippia.
C: The skill tree was bad, according to Tippia ← non sequitur.

Now, would you like to take a stab at proving me wrong about… well… anything? Or at least offer some argument towards that effect? Perhaps you would like to read up on what a “non sequitur” is, rather than rely on a very limited (and ultimately insufficient) dictionary definition? Maybe you can demonstrate how P₁ and P₂ actually leads to C? Or even better, how P₂ leads to C without P₁ — that would be interesting…

…or you can keep evading, further highlighting your inability to actually present a coherent argument.
Nathalie LaPorte
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#386 - 2013-04-24 18:10:35 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Will you attempt to have a real debate with me, even though if you do, I'll intentionally alter your quotes to make a real debate impossible, which I myself have denounced, except when I do it?

Fixed.


No.
Asxthia Strangula
The Congregation
Same Great Taste
#387 - 2013-04-24 18:12:12 UTC
My main trained those skills years before the change, not for a free SP reward, but because he wanted command ships and dictors.

If you want a free SP boost for being terrible....sucks for you :D
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#388 - 2013-04-24 18:14:07 UTC
Nathalie LaPorte wrote:
Fixed.
Nope. You broke it again. Let's be charitable and just call it a strawman rather than outright lying and forgery.

Let's also go back and repost the actual question at hand since you have forgotten it, and see if you can get it right this time. Fiftythirteenth time is the charm, right?

P₁: If things are bad, they can be improved.
P₂: The skill tree is getting improved, according to Tippia.
C: The skill tree was bad, according to Tippia ← non sequitur.

Now, would you like to take a stab at proving me wrong about… well… anything? Or at least offer some argument towards that effect? Perhaps you would like to read up on what a “non sequitur” is, rather than rely on a very limited (and ultimately insufficient) dictionary definition? Maybe you can demonstrate how P₁ and P₂ actually leads to C? Or even better, how P₂ leads to C without P₁ — that would be interesting…

Quote:
No.
Oh. Ok.

Well, if you can't demonstrate that the conclusion actually follows, then I'll simply keep saying what I said from the very start — that it doesn't follow; that it is a non sequitur. But you already knew this, which is why you had to keep evading, further highlighting your inability to actually present a coherent argument.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#389 - 2013-04-24 18:14:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Solstice Project
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
Solstice Project wrote:
Instead of talking, you guys should start shooting him.

Then, he could make another thread whining about how unfair it is
that people kill him because he has an opinion.


Hmm. This is a tempting idea and I am considering setting the OP to red now and hunting him down for eternity. But then again not sure if its worth wasting my time. Lets see what other rubbish the OP comes out with and see if I change my mind.
I've considered it, but tbh i want to stay on RvBs good side and i sure as hell couldn't resist taking the pod ...

edit: otoh, do i look like i give a **** anyway ?
Dave Stark
#390 - 2013-04-24 18:15:24 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Caxton Verticorda wrote:
If you start training now there is enough time to get Battlecruisers 5 and Destroyers 5 before the changes hit.
(Probably a repost since I cba to read through every other post, but hey.)

Only if you start NOW, are on a perfect perc/wil remap, and have +5s or are otherwise able to train at least 2700 sp/hr.
Otherwise no, you'll miss it and only be able to get up to battlecruisers 4, which should still be fine for most new players. Older players should have already known about and gotten the skills they need considering they've known about this change for a very long time.


if i've read the dev post correctly it says training in progress will be paused (not refunded) so even if you did start now, you will only have a day or two left to train (multiplied by 4) so even then you have what, a week at most of training to "catch up" with?

They changed that?
This is what I last saw: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2149156#post2149156
"Only rational integers need apply."


ah i see, i hadn't seen that quote.

only one of my alts will miss out then, oh well. it's only destroyers V i'll be sacrificing.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#391 - 2013-04-24 18:22:24 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Caxton Verticorda wrote:
If you start training now there is enough time to get Battlecruisers 5 and Destroyers 5 before the changes hit.
(Probably a repost since I cba to read through every other post, but hey.)

Only if you start NOW, are on a perfect perc/wil remap, and have +5s or are otherwise able to train at least 2700 sp/hr.
Otherwise no, you'll miss it and only be able to get up to battlecruisers 4, which should still be fine for most new players. Older players should have already known about and gotten the skills they need considering they've known about this change for a very long time.


if i've read the dev post correctly it says training in progress will be paused (not refunded) so even if you did start now, you will only have a day or two left to train (multiplied by 4) so even then you have what, a week at most of training to "catch up" with?

They changed that?
This is what I last saw: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2149156#post2149156
"Only rational integers need apply."


ah i see, i hadn't seen that quote.

only one of my alts will miss out then, oh well. it's only destroyers V i'll be sacrificing.

Since you mentioned it though I think I remember seeing a post later on about getting partial skills, but I can't find it yet.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
#392 - 2013-04-24 18:24:11 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
if i've read the dev post correctly it says training in progress will be paused (not refunded) so even if you did start now, you will only have a day or two left to train (multiplied by 4) so even then you have what, a week at most of training to "catch up" with?

They changed that?
This is what I last saw: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2149156#post2149156
"Only rational integers need apply."


ah i see, i hadn't seen that quote.

only one of my alts will miss out then, oh well. it's only destroyers V i'll be sacrificing.

i'm not sure i'm reading your posts right. is this what you're talking about?
Quote:
Partial skill training will be properly be saved and duplicated. If you are halfway between Destroyers 3 and 4 when the change hits, your progress will be properly copied to all the racial Destroyer skills you are eligible for.
Skill queues having Destroyer and/or Battlecruiser in-training will be paused at the time of the change. If you expect to be away for a long time when the reimbursement hits, please make sure you don’t train either of these skills.
http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/the-great-skill-change-of-blessed-2013/
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#393 - 2013-04-24 18:24:59 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Nevermind, I found it:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2584445#post2584445
EDIT: Yeah, posted above.

Also, if the OP still wants those "free skillpoints", he could, if he didn't have any frigate or cruiser skills trained, train destroyers and battlecruisers to V and he'll get them back on patch day!

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Dave Stark
#394 - 2013-04-24 18:28:37 UTC
seems i was right \o/

i really should bookmark these things once i've read them.
either way i think i'll sacrifice destroyers to the patch day gods still, for my purposes it's less important than battlecruisers V
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#395 - 2013-04-24 18:31:36 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Nevermind, I found it:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2584445#post2584445
EDIT: Yeah, posted above.

Also, if the OP still wants those "free skillpoints", he could, if he didn't have any frigate or cruiser skills trained, train destroyers and battlecruisers to V and he'll get them back on patch day!

Which I might add could be abused. If he were perc/will remapped but wanted to train some skills in int/mem for example, he could do this, get the skillpoints, and then dump it into the int/mem skills so he'd essentially get them trained to the same amount over time as if he had been remapped for them.

This essentially cuts almost two weeks off your training time assuming you had a full perc/wil remap and +5 implants in all attributes.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Dave Stark
#396 - 2013-04-24 18:37:21 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Nevermind, I found it:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2584445#post2584445
EDIT: Yeah, posted above.

Also, if the OP still wants those "free skillpoints", he could, if he didn't have any frigate or cruiser skills trained, train destroyers and battlecruisers to V and he'll get them back on patch day!

Which I might add could be abused. If he were perc/will remapped but wanted to train some skills in int/mem for example, he could do this, get the skillpoints, and then dump it into the int/mem skills so he'd essentially get them trained to the same amount over time as if he had been remapped for them.


so in short, this actually benefits new players more than old players. train all these sp at max sp/hour then put them in to things you'd otherwise train slower, that's pretty handy for new players who need to train support skills at the same time without putting themselves at a disadvantage in comparison to older players who already have the support skills.
Georgina Parmala
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#397 - 2013-04-24 18:38:40 UTC
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:
Abraham Nalelmir wrote:
1- I am a new player, I dropped all my Guardian plans, T2 large guns plans, even I delayed hull upgrades 5 just to train BC to 5
2- They "decided" they are responsible for their decision
3- Giving them 2 million SP FREE to allocate anywhere is not fair for me, I who spent 1.5 months maxing out BC & Destroyers with all racial frigates/cruisers skills

I have joined after the titan nerf and after caps were kicked out of high sec, am I entitled to have a titan and a cap in my starting home system?


U still get 6mil SP, which is way better than 2.

And to get it I had to drop my training plan. I have a T3 in my hangar I was supposed to fly two months ago with solid skills, but had to change my plan for the skill changes (and more than just BC, fitting other new T2 prereqs before perc/will remap like energy grid upgrades 5 for HAC, which I can't inject in time).

You didn't want to change your plan and want compensation. Hey I'd like 2 mil free SP on my 24-hour hero hauler alt too. And my PI *****. And my trader alt. What's that got to do with flying battlecruisers again?

But none of that matters. SP =/= XP. It's a meaningless number that makes you spend more money every time you die. As far as ability to fly something, there's a "sale" going on for those who did not already have it. It was announced months ago. Get it while quantities last.

Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:

League of legends only and always helps newer players by slowly cutting advantages of older players.
LoL would be the same as EVE if everyone who starts playing that game is forced to purchase characters in their release order. Do u think anyone would play it?
Supporting newer players is the only viable option as older players get bored by the game/change lifestyle etc. CCP on the other hand does the opposite.
EVE growing year by year. But who are they? New players? Returnig? Alts?
LoL has over 30 mil accounts. Can u remind me how much ever-growing EVE has?


LoL actually has some great parallels to EvE, I'm sorry for you that you don't see them.
First off, new players constantly fall behind. Every LoL champion and every EvE skill added extends the max. Every day that passes before you sign up sets you further behind.

But that's ok. You see, you don't "win" League of Legends by unlocking every single one of the ~110? characters. In fact, you can compete at the highest levels and fill any role owning no more than 30. You don't need to fly every ship in EvE. You start by training to fly a couple of well selected hulls from one race using one weapon system to fill any role. Then once you master them, you expand into other races. But first you focus on core skills. You get your fitting, capacitor, tank, weapon, etc skills up. Just as in League you get your runes and rune pages together before you start pursuing more champions.

Hey, remember that time Riot gave every existing account a free rune page? That was before you could even buy more. New accounts made after that got nothing. Man, you must have been up and down the forums about that too. And remember how people who played ranked before got Kayle unlocked for free? And how the guys that did well got Jarvan for free too? Poor new players that started right before the season ended. They should all get free money, because they didn't have enough time to level up and get enough ranked games in right? Never mind the people who already had those champs and only got a skin.

The whole "buy in order thing"... You don't need to get Frigate 5, Destroyer 5, Cruiser 5, Battlecruiser 5, Battleship 5 to fly a Dread. You do need to train them to 3 (after change), kind of like you have to buy Annie or Ashe to tide you over while you level your new account.

CCP IS supporting new players. That's the entire point of these changes. To help you pick a role/ship and get into it with solid skills faster, where you can compete equally with a 200 mil SP character flying the same ship. Because 180 mil of their SP is completely useless while flying that ship. Just like owning Lux does nothing for me while playing my poor Irelia. Better nerf the hurricane.

As for players and accounts between the two, in addition to what others have said, I'll say this. I have two eve accounts. I have 4 LoL accounts. And don't think for a second that the time based queue dodge penalties did not result in "a spike in subscriptions" when introduced.

But again, that doesn't matter. There was a sale announced. Just like limited time champion bundle offers Riot used to do.
Battlecruisers and Destroyers are going up in price. Get em before the change goes in effect.
Orcas are getting cheaper, so hold out if you can.
Command ships are getting a limited time offer, get it while supplies last!

You don't get to whine about an early bird special on something you can't afford/don't want, then demand free money because others saved some.

Science and Trade Institute [STI] is an NPC entity and as such my views do not represent those of the entity or any of its members

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=276984&p=38

James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#398 - 2013-04-24 18:40:45 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Dave Stark wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Nevermind, I found it:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2584445#post2584445
EDIT: Yeah, posted above.

Also, if the OP still wants those "free skillpoints", he could, if he didn't have any frigate or cruiser skills trained, train destroyers and battlecruisers to V and he'll get them back on patch day!

Which I might add could be abused. If he were perc/will remapped but wanted to train some skills in int/mem for example, he could do this, get the skillpoints, and then dump it into the int/mem skills so he'd essentially get them trained to the same amount over time as if he had been remapped for them.


so in short, this actually benefits new players more than old players. train all these sp at max sp/hour then put them in to things you'd otherwise train slower, that's pretty handy for new players who need to train support skills at the same time without putting themselves at a disadvantage in comparison to older players who already have the support skills.

Except the catch is that you can't do this if you have any frigates trained to or above level 3.
You could get just the battlecruisers skill refunded if you didn't have any cruisers trained up to lvl 3.
I have to leave now but when I get back later I'll do the math on how much that would save you.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#399 - 2013-04-24 18:58:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Herzog Wolfhammer
I've been seeing it for almost 20 years now. You guys know the drill.

These people want to be like Mr and Mrs Office Professional and earn their money first, THEN have kids when they are like 35 or 40. So you see these people huffing and puffing after their toddlers, spoiled rotten because the kid, purely having the natural survival wiring of all little kids: the manipulation of the creatures they rely on to survive (adults) is a master at tantrums.

So the aging yuppie mommy and daddy lack the energy to deal with their kid's tantrums. (they always have just one, lest they destroy the planet in one generation you know).

The kid is seldom, if at all, told "NO".

They grow up to become adults who were never told "NO".

So when "NO" comes along, they can't deal with it.

There was also a parenting movement in the 1990s that was all about telling kids how special and smart they are, even if the kid is found playing with their own poop. This, they told, was important because if they didn't, the kid will grow up to be the next school shooter or have (OMG Horror of Horrors!!!) "a low self esteem". (I got the vapors typing that).

So now we have adults who in addition to never being told "NO", they think they are special and entitled too.


It's a bad combination, this little bubble of self-importance and entitlement. And as the world with its collapsing economy and societal decay gets funnier by the minute, it's going to be fun watching those bubbles burst and those false paradigms come down with crushing force.

For now, we just have this thread to enjoy.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Ana Vyr
Vyral Technologies
#400 - 2013-04-24 19:05:06 UTC
10/10

You guys let them troll you for 20 pages?