These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Summer expansion SP

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Royal Executioner Shazih
Doomheim
#121 - 2013-04-23 20:03:29 UTC
I see how bad EVE society because I played many games and read many forums. Let's take League of legends. Players ask for sale there all the time and no1 writes like' hey I paid for that char full price, so u have too'.
Even when I bought a char for full price and it was put on sale 2 weeks later I never flamed about it, because I've already been enjoying it for 2 weeks.

But EVE players played EVE too much and so here all I get is: 'EVE is harsh. Deal with it. etc.'
U guys forgot that EVE just a game.
Dave Stark
#122 - 2013-04-23 20:05:09 UTC
yes, eve is a game. congratulations.

now why don't you play it, instead of complaining about it?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#123 - 2013-04-23 20:06:07 UTC
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:
I see how bad EVE society because I played many games and read many forums.
…and what's said on the forums is always true. Roll

So could you actually present some kind of argument or evidence for once? How is EVE society “bad”? More to the point: why does it matter?
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#124 - 2013-04-23 20:07:41 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
yes, eve is a game. congratulations.

now why don't you play it, instead of complaining about it?


Dave...that IS how some people play the game...

Big smile

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Royal Executioner Shazih
Doomheim
#125 - 2013-04-23 20:08:34 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:
The only reason I expected criticism is that I already know that EVE society is corrupted.
Oh? In what way?

Quote:
But it does not make my post invalid in any way.
True. What makes your post invalid is you complete lack of reasoning for why you should get a bunch of SP for no particular reason.

Quote:
The only reason players stand against me is their detrimental way of thinking (if i suffered, every1 should suffer).
Eh, no. There are plenty of reason to stand against your idea that you should be “compensated” for nothing. One of them is that you're asking to be compensated for nothing. Another is that you're already getting a much more optimise skill tree, so you have nothing to complain about. Yet another is that you have fundamentally misunderstood what the change and skill reimbursement is all about or how it works.

None of it is about how you have to “suffer” — largely because you are the only one that think it's in any way related to suffering and punishment.


If the skill tree was so bad, then y did u play it then at that time? U should have left then. But u stayed. Why do u use it as a point now then?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#126 - 2013-04-23 20:12:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:
If the skill tree was so bad, then y did u play it then at that time?
Non sequitur.

You know what's great? Bacon!
You know what's even better? Bacon and eggs.

Does bacon and eggs mean I should throw out the bacon? Hell no, because it's great.

Oh, and you'll note that I didn't say that the skill tree was bad… that's just you projecting your “suffering/punishment” feelings.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#127 - 2013-04-23 20:15:23 UTC
Okay, now you are getting to the point where you are becoming an embarrassment to Blue pilots in general.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#128 - 2013-04-23 20:20:48 UTC
This thread is full of personal attacks without any rogerian style of argument.

The sticking point of this matter is that perhaps CCP is rewarding players for training in advance.

Instead of taking the side of the OP or the other players, I would argue that no one should be rewarded.

If you skilled up to level V. Too bad, you have to train it again.

It is the only gentlemen's solution.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#129 - 2013-04-23 20:24:47 UTC  |  Edited by: silens vesica
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:
I
But EVE players played EVE too much and so here all I get is: 'EVE is harsh. Deal with it. etc.'
U guys forgot that EVE just a game.
Yup. It's a game. It's a harsh game. Everyone in this thread save you seems to get that.

Do not compare EVE to another game, and then claim that such comparison makes your unreasonable demands reasonable. That other game is a different game and the conditions that apply there in no way, shape, or form place any obligation on CCP. Any such claim is futile, false, and further demonstrates your failure to understand that CCP is only answerable for those things that CCP does or has done.

CCP has done:
- Given a detailed description of upcoming changes, broadly communicated in a clear and logical manner.
- Warned us multiple times PRECISELY what we need to do to capitalize on upcoming changes.
- Left us on our own to behave like rational beings and act on what they've done and plan to do.

It is entirely clear you have failed to follow through. For that, we should agree with you? Be nice to your silly demand?
I think not.

Captain Tardbar wrote:

If you skilled up to level V. Too bad, you have to train it again.

It is the only gentlemen's solution.

No, Sir. It is not.

That is A solution. CCP has, in its wisdom, decided that your proposal is not the best way forward.

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#130 - 2013-04-23 20:28:59 UTC
Eve is rough. Please purchase a helmet through the NEX.


Unless you want to complain about not being given enough free AUR next.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Screenlag
Armaggedon Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#131 - 2013-04-23 20:36:05 UTC
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:
Hi everyone.
Probably my post will bring a lot of criticism but I want to make a point.
Due to ship skills revamp people who train Destroyers V and Battlecriusers V are going to get around 6mil SP. That is fine.
But players who dont do that will get nothing.

I propose that players who decided not to train the mentioned skill get partial recompensation (say 30% of the max possible skills). For example, if someone gets zero additional SP from summer expansion he qualifies for 6x0.3 = 2m free SP to allocate.
If the player gets 2m SP from summer expansion he qualifies for (6-2)x0.3 = 1,3m free SP to allocate etc.

Some of u will object because we all knew that in advance and could train Destroyers V and Battlecriusers V. BUT while for older players 20-30 days of training is nothing newer players cant afford to spend so much time on 1-2 skills. It gives unfair advantage to older players and players who already have Destroyers V and Battlecriusers V over newer player.

That's why I propose recompensation.


You still have time. If you actually want BC5 and not just free SP then begin training.
Shaera Taam
Khanid Prime Free Irregulars
#132 - 2013-04-23 20:36:25 UTC
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:


I am a firm believer that current skill system in EVE is the second-largest singular detrimental factor to the game's player base growth. Largest factor being the current player base. But the OP brings up an interesting point.

OK, those of us who are playing now, and have been for a while, all planned ahead and trained Destroyers and BCs to V. I know I did. But what about new players? You know, those "the few, the proud, the nooby"? What about them? Imagine one of those guys joining the game and finding out that within weeks (meaning there's no way in holy hell he can do it fast enough) he will miss out on additional 6 million SP worth of training time, which translates into what, 3.7 months worth of training at 2200 SP/hr? How do you think this will make the new player feel? Smart move?

Personally I'd rather see the whole SP and training system scrubbed or at least totally overhauled. Then again, I'm a realist, and I know it will never happen as it is pretty much the only thing still holding this game together. Well, that and bird droppings.


Wow... Really? My sarcasm meter never even twitched...

Go.
Play.
Another.
Game.

Leave this one to those of us that enjoy it the way it is and the direction it is heading.

O, wait, I forgot... You won't do that, because then you won't have something to complain about... My bad... Carry on...

Thus Spake the Frigate Goddess!
Georgina Parmala
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#133 - 2013-04-23 20:38:22 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:

The ONLY players who will be at a disadvantage are the players who create new characters and simply do not have enough time to complete the Frigs to 4, desis to 5, cruisers to 3 and BC to 5.

What disadvantage?

A new player that wants to fly a recon no longer needs to train Racial Frigate 5, covops 4. Just cloaking 4 which you need anyway to actually fly the ship.

A new player that wants to fly a dictor doesn't have to train Frigate 5, Evasive Maneuvering 5 and Interceptor 4 any more. He can move right on to Destroyer 5 and train for the interdiction probe launcher. The skill progression also translates into a HIC MUCH better.

The only disadvantage is to someone who has pvp in command ships of all four races as their goal, all on the same character for some reason. And is just starting now. How long does it take to max out related gunnery drone and tank skills again? And the leadership skills for max links? Not to mention HM HAM and missile support skills? I would be seriously surprised if the collective training time for a new character to accomplish that went up by as much as 10%.

It's so niche, it's negligible compared to the real benefits for new characters. Unless you're starting up a universal on-grid boosting alt.

Science and Trade Institute [STI] is an NPC entity and as such my views do not represent those of the entity or any of its members

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=276984&p=38
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#134 - 2013-04-23 20:43:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Georgina Parmala wrote:
The only disadvantage is to someone who has pvp in command ships of all four races as their goal, all on the same character for some reason.
Actually, while I haven't checked since they rejiggered the CS prereqs to include more leadership skills, last I checked, going for all 8 command ships was actually several million SPs cheaper under the new scheme than under the old one, since you no longer had to go for the entire Logi+HAC cruiser branch.

Sure, with the leadership skills added in, it won't be quite as much, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's still hellalot cheaper and faster than before.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#135 - 2013-04-23 20:55:13 UTC
Man, I really wish you could downvote posts. That one just rustled my jimmies.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#136 - 2013-04-23 20:56:10 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Man, I really wish you could downvote posts. That one just rustled my jimmies.

There's always the bounty system… Blink
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#137 - 2013-04-23 20:56:44 UTC  |  Edited by: silens vesica
Tippia wrote:
Georgina Parmala wrote:
The only disadvantage is to someone who has pvp in command ships of all four races as their goal, all on the same character for some reason.
Actually, while I haven't checked since they rejiggered the CS prereqs to include more leadership skills, last I checked, going for all 8 command ships was actually several million SPs under the new scheme than under the old one, since you no longer had to go for the entire Logi+HAC cruiser branch.

Sure, with the leadership skills added in, it won't be quite as much, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's still hellalot cheaper and faster than before.
I'm actually going to get very little real benefit, since I already have all 8 Command Ships on my main - and a couple other toons as well. Sure, I'm going to get a bunch of shiny free SP, which will make absolutely zero impact on my play, because they'll give me nothing that I don't already have.

But that understanding seems a mental stretch too far for some folks. Roll


James Amril-Kesh wrote:

My god, cry more why don't you. Someone shows you how you're wrong, and you report them.
This is not how responsible adults behave.

Methinks you have placed your finger on the nub of the problem.

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc
Dave Stark
#138 - 2013-04-23 20:57:01 UTC
Tippia wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Man, I really wish you could downvote posts. That one just rustled my jimmies.

There's always the bounty system… Blink


they're unworthy of the isk.
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#139 - 2013-04-23 20:58:08 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Man, I really wish you could downvote posts. That one just rustled my jimmies.


Agreed.



But then again id be -10k likes and get ganked on sight be the ISDs. Big smile

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#140 - 2013-04-23 21:00:04 UTC
Tippia wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Man, I really wish you could downvote posts. That one just rustled my jimmies.

There's always the bounty system… Blink

I did that once. I placed a 5m bounty on a guy and he subsequently placed a 350m bounty on me.
It was quite amusing but I'm not generally into wasting my isk like that.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)