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[Odyssey] Cruise Missiles

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Shingorash
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#441 - 2013-04-22 18:13:09 UTC
Initial tests on the test server look good.

Fit like this (which I admit is a bit of an odd fit for a PVP and the fact it has no prop mod) the ship has taken out 3 other Ravens, a Tengu and a Sac.

High power
6x Cruise Missile Launcher II
1x Heavy Energy Neutralizer II

Medium power
1x Faint Warp Disruptor I
1x Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
1x X-Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I
1x Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
1x Heavy Capacitor Booster II
1x Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
1x EM Ward Field II

Low power
1x Damage Control II
3x Ballistic Control System II
1x Gravimetric Backup Array II
Rig Slot
1x Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
2x Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I

Drones
5x Warrior II
5x Hammerhead II

Using Fury's I was hitting the Raven's for about 2300 damage a volley and the Tengu I was hitting for 1100 or so a Volley with Precision Missiles. Also 4 shotted an active tanked Sacrilege with T2 Precision.

If the missiles stay like this they might actually be viable for PVP. The Explosion penalty isn't really having an effect.

Need to test against Frigates.
Enya Sparhawk
Black Tea and Talons
#442 - 2013-04-22 21:07:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Enya Sparhawk
Hmmm, you know, the only thing I would do with torps is drastically increase their velocity (like make them faster than a cruise missle)...

That's it.

Fíorghrá: Grá na fírinne

Maireann croí éadrom i bhfad.

Bíonn súil le muir ach ní bhíonn súil le tír.

Is maith an scéalaí an aimsir.

When the lost ships of Greece finally return home...
Bucca Zerodyme
Good For Nothing Corporation
#443 - 2013-04-22 22:39:34 UTC
Shingorash wrote:
Initial tests on the test server look good.

Fit like this (which I admit is a bit of an odd fit for a PVP and the fact it has no prop mod) the ship has taken out 3 other Ravens, a Tengu and a Sac.

High power
6x Cruise Missile Launcher II
1x Heavy Energy Neutralizer II

Medium power
1x Faint Warp Disruptor I
1x Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
1x X-Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I
1x Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
1x Heavy Capacitor Booster II
1x Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
1x EM Ward Field II

Low power
1x Damage Control II
3x Ballistic Control System II
1x Gravimetric Backup Array II
Rig Slot
1x Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
2x Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I

Drones
5x Warrior II
5x Hammerhead II

Using Fury's I was hitting the Raven's for about 2300 damage a volley and the Tengu I was hitting for 1100 or so a Volley with Precision Missiles. Also 4 shotted an active tanked Sacrilege with T2 Precision.

If the missiles stay like this they might actually be viable for PVP. The Explosion penalty isn't really having an effect.

Need to test against Frigates.


Cruise is still not good against speed-tanking. But as long as ppl dont take Cruise seriously they wont fit an AB. Time will tell us if cruise will be good or bad.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#444 - 2013-04-22 23:01:52 UTC
Bucca Zerodyme wrote:
Shingorash wrote:
Initial tests on the test server look good.

Fit like this (which I admit is a bit of an odd fit for a PVP and the fact it has no prop mod) the ship has taken out 3 other Ravens, a Tengu and a Sac.

High power
6x Cruise Missile Launcher II
1x Heavy Energy Neutralizer II

Medium power
1x Faint Warp Disruptor I
1x Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
1x X-Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I
1x Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
1x Heavy Capacitor Booster II
1x Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
1x EM Ward Field II

Low power
1x Damage Control II
3x Ballistic Control System II
1x Gravimetric Backup Array II
Rig Slot
1x Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
2x Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I

Drones
5x Warrior II
5x Hammerhead II

Using Fury's I was hitting the Raven's for about 2300 damage a volley and the Tengu I was hitting for 1100 or so a Volley with Precision Missiles. Also 4 shotted an active tanked Sacrilege with T2 Precision.

If the missiles stay like this they might actually be viable for PVP. The Explosion penalty isn't really having an effect.

Need to test against Frigates.


Cruise is still not good against speed-tanking. But as long as ppl dont take Cruise seriously they wont fit an AB. Time will tell us if cruise will be good or bad.



MIssiles are supposed to be a bit weak against AB speed tanking. That is their price for always doign SOME damage. If they coudl do most of their damage to AB speed tankers then mobility would be useles in the game.. jsut after the speed nerf thta happened.. they had to be nerfed VERY VERY fast because they made all other forms of combat irrelevant.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Shingorash
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#445 - 2013-04-23 00:01:08 UTC
Well that Raven ended up 10 for 0 so it is clearly working well.

Even against something with an AB those precision missiles chew them up. Especially when in web range.

If these are the final chnnges I am more than happy with them.

Worked well on a Geddon as well. Cruise and long range neuts is a good combo.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#446 - 2013-04-23 07:55:08 UTC
TZeer wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
TZeer wrote:
Raven could be useful in PVP. But not with the current mechanics to probing where you get a warp in within 5 sec.


Sure, and if you're trying to use the Raven against fleets that are big enough to have a dedicated covops traveling with them.... well, then maybe you shouldn't use a Raven. That doesn't make it not useful. And hell - the Raven's fully capable of dropping out 900 DPS up close if someone were to warp their fleet on top of them.

-Liang



it would need a change of game mechanics. But what I think would make peopel satisfied woudl be if a cruise missile could be fired.. the raven could warp out .... and the missile fired would still hit and damage the target. That could lead to some interesting tactics



Not really.

Based on the same reason you don't see paper thin sniper setups @ 150km+ any more. You simply don't have time to align and warp out again, if they try to scan you down when you come in.


You do see them quite a bit at ~100km though.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Nemesis Bosseret
Dysfunctional Nocturnal Rejects
#447 - 2013-04-23 08:30:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Nemesis Bosseret
CCP Rise wrote:
Hello!

As you all know, we are rebalancing all of the tech 1 battleships for Odyssey. This means its a very good time to begin looking at large missile systems. This post covers Cruise Missiles specifically.

The biggest problem for Cruise missiles is that their main draw is their range (roughly 75k with no skills, 170k with all 5s, and 250km or so with a Raven). Unfortunately, using long-range missiles in most pvp situations is unrealistic, as the flight time for the missiles, which can be up to 20 seconds, allows plenty of opportunity for your target to evade damage. On top of that, in situations where flight time isn't as much of a problem (like small scale engagements), cruise damage is extremely low. The result is a situation where Cruise Missiles have pve applications, but otherwise torpedoes become the only available weapon system for missile focused battleships. We want to change that!

We are hoping to improve Cruise from two angles. First we will increase their damage by around 30%. This will happen partly in a change to the base missile damage, and partly in a rate of fire increase for the launchers. Secondly, we are going to increase the base velocity of cruise missiles substantially, making their role as the premiere long range missile at least slightly more realistic. These two improvements will be balanced by an increase in power grid need for the launchers, and a small explosion radius increase for the missiles.

Specifically:

5% increased rate of fire for all Cruise Missile Launchers
200 added power grid need for all Cruise Missile launchers

4700m/sec base missile velocity for all Cruise Missiles (up from 3750m/sec)
14 second base flight time for all Cruise Missiles (down from 20 seconds)
25% increase in base damage for all Cruise Missiles
10% increase in explosion radius for all Cruise Missiles

Please keep in mind this change is not comprehensive. Following Odyssey, we hope to do more work to improve the missile systems in EVE by potentially adding new modules and/or interactions.

Look forward to hearing your feedback, as always
Rise

i see one issue with this............ Ur shooting something the size of a cruiser at me and expect an interceptor to be overtaken by it? lol common speed is not the issue with cruise missles i say damage boost yes because they definitly need it but u dont need to tweek the speed....... an interceptor should be able to out run incomming fire easy its how they stay alive since there paper thin
Josilin du Guesclin
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#448 - 2013-04-23 10:00:45 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Jureth22 wrote:
just tested a cruise raven vs a typhoon

fitt of raven : 6x cruise missile launcher II + scourge fury/1x web/1x painter/4x bcu

initial volley whitout tp : 1201
with tp : 1500

seriosly???? will cruise missiles need to tp a battleship size hull to be able to make their full potention damage.

i am dissapoint,dps looks ok on paper,but when in combat,everything changes


I'm not sure why you would expect to use fury missiles to do full damage to any attack battleship. Try using the correct ammo (navy).

-Liang
If the BS is moving and not webbed/painted, you'll probably want to use precision.
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#449 - 2013-04-23 11:13:02 UTC
Nemesis Bosseret wrote:
Ur shooting something the size of a cruiser at me and expect an interceptor to be overtaken by it? lol


Brb. Taking my car back to the dealer because a 747 is faster.
Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#450 - 2013-04-23 12:05:42 UTC
Nemesis Bosseret wrote:
an interceptor should be able to out run incomming fire easy


Yeah, why not. lets build a ship that can outrun missiles. That guy did it, too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tF1Up_xXSI

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.
Caitlyn Tufy
Perkone
Caldari State
#451 - 2013-04-23 12:57:04 UTC
Nemesis Bosseret wrote:
I see one issue with this............ Ur shooting something the size of a cruiser at me and expect an interceptor to be overtaken by it?


Size =/= speed. Some of the fastest missiles in existence are ICBMs, which have a terminal velocity of almost 10km/s, meaning they go off in a bit over 10 seconds after reentry (which is why you either need to intercept them in launch phase or get a very fast hitting weapon such as laser to intercept them). By comparison, sidewinders and tomahawks are slowpokes, even though they're vastly smaller. In fact, your usual tomahawk can even be intercepted by a fairly regular jet, that's how slow it cruises.
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#452 - 2013-04-23 13:30:43 UTC
Cruise missiles aren't the size of cruisers anyway. What?
Panhead4411
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services
The Possum Lodge
#453 - 2013-04-23 18:29:07 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
...Following Odyssey, we hope to do more work to improve the missile systems in EVE by potentially adding new modules and/or interactions....


More than 6 Large Launchers on a non-navy ship? (R.I.P. Torp Naga)

http://blog.beyondreality.se/shift-click-does-nothing    < Unified Inventory is NOT ready...
fukier
Gallente Federation
#454 - 2013-04-23 18:33:14 UTC
Panhead4411 wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
...Following Odyssey, we hope to do more work to improve the missile systems in EVE by potentially adding new modules and/or interactions....


More than 6 Large Launchers on a non-navy ship? (R.I.P. Torp Naga)


torp naga?

At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box.
Jonas Sukarala
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#455 - 2013-04-23 18:35:33 UTC
if anything the cruise missiles should have even higher explosion radius being massive missiles and all the only real issue with them is the travel time and low alpha.

'Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line' CCP Ytterbium Nerf missile range into place where is the TD missile change?  ..projectiles should use capacitor. ABC's should be T2 HABC and nerf web strength its still too high

xKOMODOx
#456 - 2013-04-23 20:13:14 UTC
speaking of Cruise missiles - may be it is time to buff a little the POS Missile Batteries - Citadel, Cruise and Torpedo batteries. Just a friendly reminder Big smile
Gargantoi
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#457 - 2013-04-23 20:26:42 UTC
improve explosion velocity that kills the dmg ...u can add 10000% to its dmg the target ship can speed tank u so give it more Explosion velocity
Violet Winters
I HAVE THE POWER OF GOD AND ANIME ON MY SIDE
Blue Eyes and Exodia Toon Duelist Kingdom Duelers
#458 - 2013-04-23 21:51:28 UTC
I can wipe the dust off my nano typhoon now it seems, this is awesome. Cool

CEO - Anglic Eclipse.
Enya Sparhawk
Black Tea and Talons
#459 - 2013-04-23 22:27:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Enya Sparhawk
Debora Tsung wrote:
Nemesis Bosseret wrote:
an interceptor should be able to out run incomming fire easy


Yeah, why not. lets build a ship that can outrun missiles. That guy did it, too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tF1Up_xXSI


LOL very funny video...

Quote:
improve explosion velocity that kills the dmg ...u can add 10000% to its dmg the target ship can speed tank u so give it more Explosion velocity


All that will do is unbalance the mechanics of the damage application...

Fíorghrá: Grá na fírinne

Maireann croí éadrom i bhfad.

Bíonn súil le muir ach ní bhíonn súil le tír.

Is maith an scéalaí an aimsir.

When the lost ships of Greece finally return home...
Gargantoi
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#460 - 2013-04-24 01:37:23 UTC
and again i say unless u boost exp velocity and lower signature radius of cruise missiles u will end up with another fail "balance" take the last balance u guys did on missiles ..u made rage torpedos have a 750 signature radius when the biggest bs has 470m ...now u wanna make temepst have 320 signature radius and cruise missiles + torpedos have a big exp radius also ...judging by the npc's ...youre ideea was artilery + tp ...but seeing that tp is better on missiles u are forcing people who wanna use cruise missiles / torpedos to use a target painter..i guess thats the whole point of +1 med slot on raven ..just to add a target painter so judging by ccp logic ...torpedos should be use vs capitals cruise missiles vs bs ..and thats about it ...cuz u will do crap dmg to anything smaller then that ...but if you compare ..missiles to guns u find a big gap ..for instance big guns can hit anything except a frigate ..then u would have problems ..but u hit cruisers for max dmg ..u hit bc's for max dmg u hit destroyers for max dmg ..all u need is a web ..but srsly i would LOVE to see some ccp fits for the raven how they can tank + takle + apply ew + mwd same time u cant have tank + ew on a raven ..either resists will be to low and u will take to much dmg and die to fast ...either u wont boost enough shield and again u will die to fast also speaking off u should look into shield boosters or armor repairers also since u killed solo 3 patches ago with a t2 shield / armor tank on a bs/bc withouth bonuses to rep ..that ship dies pretty fast ..not to mention the cap problems ...that beeing said ..i think u will be balancing this game for 2-3 more years ShockedIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdea