Warfare & Tactics

I think Lockout was saying there are other things that drive content in Eve, not just kills in low sec. Which is fine. Mining adds content to Eve too. Market manipulation, building stuff as well. So does sitting on a Titan for hours waiting for a bridge. Shooting IHUBS, POS, Sov Grinding, etc.. do too.

Forcing somebody to lose whatever they think is valuable is one of the best content drivers in the game. (I know Lockout agrees)

In this sense, your alliance is doing a great job and it's been real fun helping you guys take down home systems from the Caldari and Amarr. Keep it up! At some point they will either "find something more interesting to do" or lose all self-respect and base out of non-FW systems.

It doesn't matter how they justify "finding something more interesting to do", it's just important that they do go "find something more interesting to do".

w.r.t. the other topic, 100% of my kills and losses are FW related and provide "content" for both FW and non-FW players. The high number of both kills and losses are possible because there's little need to do something other than have fun pvp'ing. Even when "orbiting a button for isk", my FW character is out in space and available for fights.

Like I said, I don't care how opposing militia members justify leaving FW low sec, just that they do leave FW low sec. If they want to convince themselves that the reason they are losing their home systems is because they don't have afk plexing alts, then great. I don't really care what they think anymore.

It's awesome that everybody is finding pvp in plexes. It's great that guys like me can orbit buttons nearly 100% of the time while also providing content for the low sec pirates. Win/win I say. If there were no rewards involved, I'd have to spend more time earning it out of theater - meaning less content for everybody else.

Somebody has to win. If you want to engage in FW for the pvp, and make some isk as well then base out of non-fw low sec. If you want to farm, then farm. If you want to base out of FW low sec and still get fights, then become a pirate. If you want to hold a FW low sec system then get organized and do it.

If you want to win FW by taking every system, then bring it. Something for everybody.

Low sec pvp is full of men behaving like boys. Null sec drama is full of men behaving like girls.

If you weren't a filthy rotton frog scum I'd agree wholeheartedly with this.

As you ARE a filthy rotten frog scum I'll say 'STOP READING MY MIND!!!"

well if these "alts in empty hulls" can make you out then yes.... you NEED to respect something OUTSIDE of your success

These are interesting times when other players think that we care whether or not they give us respect. Go, "find more interesting things to do" - or not. We don't care.

You can make people care about a game in at least 2 ways:

1) you can make it so that if they do not care about it, they will have bad consequences such as have to do boring stuff - like move ships, or defensive plex with a stabbed alt, or have to waste more time to reship after every loss.

or

2) You can make the game fun and challenging.

IMO there is too much focus on the first option. When the second option would be easy to achieve - make fw about pvp instead of alts flipping plexes.




We actually agree on some basic notions. I agree that if the game were fixed no one would care how many ships they lose to hold a system. But I have done this game long enough.

I have plexed and plexed and plexed jus to find that next time I sign in all the work lost. And it was boring work with very little pvp.

I can see the killboards of those who get the most vp per day. So I can be pretty sure all my work was undone by plexing alts. When the war is most efficiently run by having alt rabbits (no offense to your name) run from pvp I no longer have an interest. CCP needs to make it so that if you want to efficiently win the sov war then that means you should be ready to pvp.

In the amarr I was not well known but for those who did they knew that I would encourage plexing. But after a while of watching the entire sov be captured by rabbits well even I gave up.



I am not saying fw is dead. FW never died despite being broken for years. It can remain broken a few more years and it won't die. I am not interested in fps games. Just because I like pvp in eve doesn't mean I am interested in fps games.

But yes. As long as fw sov is most efficiently gained by running alts around in stabbed ships and avoiding all pvp then I consider it broken.

Oh god, there's so much to answer and my english is submediocre. However I'll try.

First and foremost, I am more than aware this is not an argument I can win in a topic on the unofficial FW forums. Most people posting here are in FW and they are in FW for a damn good reason, they want the instant action and carefree style that it brings. So, definitely not trying to win the argument, rather trying to voice a different opinion, and after spending the last three and a half years in FW, I'd like to kid myself that I have at least a vague clue.

Let's start with "drama !=content" . For a lot of people drama fuels the reasons to go out there and pew the living **** out of eachother. I hate to use what is already an overused word, but it provides the narrative. Why do you think that when we took all systems, Ladi had the biggest attendence, had people staying up in the middle of the night, etc ? Sure, partly because it was the last system, but also partly because all the drama and forum sperg over the years created a lot of bad blood and people wanted to see any incarnation of PERVS evicted.


Not everyone finds some mediocre CCP lore reason enough to take part. Surprisingly not everyone finds BC stats reason enough to take part. So this is what drama does, refines in to narrative and gives people a reason to take part. Hell, look at null, there's very little drama left, everyone is buddy buddy with everyone else for years. Result ? No more grudges, no more fights, bar the odd russians who aren't friends with eveyone else due to the language and cultural barrier.

Without the context, Eve is a mediocre PVP game, outdated graphics, a terribad UI and (less now) massively unbalanced ****. A lot of people, I'd dare say the majority, are playing it for the social experiment, the player driven narrative. Without that, might aswell play Crysis 3 or any other game that has awesome graphics and instant action.


As for the Rakapas siege, sure more fights would've been fun for the 20 of us spinning buttons and watching paint dry. However, taking Raka fast, then beeing able to move further and take all the systems created enjoyment for a lot more people. There's hundreds of people now proud they took part in an event that only happened twice in the history of FW. Should we have thrown that away just because you, me and a few others wanted to kill a 20 more dessies ? Which brings me to the next point.

Our supposedly different definitions of fun. Sure, we do see some things differently, but it's not only that. I find it hard to make the next argument without it seeming like an attack, so I'll just have to rely on the fact that you know I respect you and your opinions. But, to the point.

Selfishness. From an individual's perspective, no one, not even me, will argue that constant round the clock pvp is more fun. However, as I was pointing out to the previous paragraph, once you have assumed a leadership position, be it formal or informal, you have made a commitement to people to also facilitate their fun in game, otherwise they stop logging in. Accepting leadership resposability and then thinking only about your fun is the perfect way to end up with a bunch of inactives.

And last but not least, I can't agree with your staement that nullsec should be for this, lowsec for the other, etc. If people like us want to engage in BS fights in low, well, why not, and conversely, if you want to go roam in a caracal in sovspace, who am I to say no ? The ideea of progression trough PVE highsec > small gang lowsec > large fights and politics in nullsec is so unimagginative and opposed to a sandbox that it makes me cringe.

/wall o' text