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THE CAT OUT OF THE BAG: Killing titans/supers at login - even in POS's.
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Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#61 - 2013-04-13 16:33:59 UTC
Gabriel Karade wrote:
Yeah, that is a pretty crappy mechanic.


Pretty much everything around bumping is a crappy mechanic. Blink

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SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#62 - 2013-04-14 04:03:31 UTC
Angelique Duchemin wrote:
When lone pilots own and move titan alts around null to gank ratting Carriers then I feel that titans need a hit of reality. An expensive one.


Are you playing a different game than I am?
Mocam
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#63 - 2013-04-19 22:24:12 UTC
Just thinking but...

If you can do this to gank, this could be used by a team instead - to set deeper safe-spots.

Simply warp to their emergency log-off point, when they come back, they warp away then warp back to you and do it again from there as you keep bouncing that safe spot farther and farther out.

This might explain how the Russians made this video of deep safes post nerf -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnGMcHlfx8s

They figured out a way to get way out there.
Zyress
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#64 - 2013-04-19 22:42:50 UTC
Buhhdust Princess wrote:
Yeah this works, It's been done several times already and I wasn't aware that it was actually a secret?

You have to either:
1) Force a super to log on (putting a gang of Vindicators a couple systems in front of their scouts usually works)
2) Know what time that super logs in (usually) and watch it.

To combat it, it's easy.
1) Don't be ********.

Also, as far as I'm aware rocket this isn't an exploit :)
Look forward to seeing the titan kills


Seems like an exploit, game mechanic makes it impossible for the super to respond be it fight or flight. You should always have at least one of those options. Still the less supercaps the better in my book.
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#65 - 2013-04-19 23:35:07 UTC
Zyress wrote:
Still the less supercaps the better in my book.

This ^

Signatures should be used responsibly...
R0ot
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#66 - 2013-04-19 23:44:10 UTC
So you'd need to land at the e-warp spot which is 1 mil KM from the log out spot approx in your 100mn fleet stabber and then also get up to speed and bump the super.

We tested the bubble mechanics with a full virtue and hardwiring prober and you just get there in time with a dictor to bubble, a hictor (broadsword) can also do it but you are talking about a stabber that then has to bump the SC / T also. While I admire your attempts nobody is going to be able to do this reliably unless you basically know when they click log in (not when they appear on watchlist).

I do wish the bubble mechanic worked though because it would at least force supers to not be able to blind log in with immunity into a pos or bad situation and like people do and additionally aggro should carry through downtime in a paused effect.
advii
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#67 - 2013-04-20 01:15:26 UTC  |  Edited by: advii
Witness the asperger's. Big smileBig smileBig smileBig smileBig smileBig smileBig smileBig smileBig smileBig smileBig smileBig smile m8
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#68 - 2013-04-20 07:21:06 UTC
Mocam wrote:
Just thinking but...

If you can do this to gank, this could be used by a team instead - to set deeper safe-spots.

Simply warp to their emergency log-off point, when they come back, they warp away then warp back to you and do it again from there as you keep bouncing that safe spot farther and farther out.


You E-warp in a random direction, so it would take a very, very long time to develop an outlier far enough out to be useful, since the sum of a bunch of random vectors of all the same length tends to be around 0.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
#69 - 2013-04-20 11:05:17 UTC
Given that the pilot cannot abort the warp I would suggest that the same rules would apply as with dual vindi-webs on undock which, as I recall, was declared an exploit.
It might, given the levels of organisation required on the part of the agressors, be treated somewhat more leniently - but I would pre-assume an exploit and avoid its use.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#70 - 2013-04-20 11:22:27 UTC
I would be nice to have some comment on this from CCP. I'm all for killing titans and supers but if it involves taking advantage of an unavoidable scenario where the pilot is simply unable to control their ship, then there's a problem.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Xain deSleena
420 Enterprises.
The Initiative.
#71 - 2013-04-20 11:23:47 UTC
If a ship is 'in warp' and a message is generated to the pilot to confirm this action then how you can be bumped while being 'in warp' does not make sense at all...Cry This has the smell of exploit all over it and for any Super to die this way is just ridiculous. Ships are supposed to die in battle not at login and while warping? We are all bound to find all the little hidden things of EVE that are just plain stupid. A 100b plus ship should never be allowed to die this way at no fault of the pilot. Fix it somebody..
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#72 - 2013-04-20 11:32:16 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
And I've seen other devs saying differently.
Source? And more importantly: timing?

RubyPorto wrote:
I've got a bunch of Cyno alt pod losses that say you're wrong.
…which is why it's probably worth a bug-report, since it goes against the stated design goal: not logged on = no new flags.

Quote:
Also, if it were true that you couldn't get a PvP timer during the time you're in space after logging off, Safe Logoffs would be rather pointless, wouldn't they, since that's the specific event they're designed to prevent.
That was a common question when safe logoffs were introduced: why bother? The only answer I remember at the time was that you were sure the process had finished, and you could abort it and respond at any time, unlike if you just log off in empty space…
Caviar Liberta
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#73 - 2013-04-20 11:50:04 UTC
SmilingVagrant wrote:
Angelique Duchemin wrote:
When lone pilots own and move titan alts around null to gank ratting Carriers then I feel that titans need a hit of reality. An expensive one.


Are you playing a different game than I am?


I also am interested in knowing more about these titans that can "gank" carriers.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#74 - 2013-04-20 12:48:59 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
Tippia wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
And I've seen other devs saying differently.
Source? And more importantly: timing?

RubyPorto wrote:
I've got a bunch of Cyno alt pod losses that say you're wrong.
…which is why it's probably worth a bug-report, since it goes against the stated design goal: not logged on = no new flags.

Quote:
Also, if it were true that you couldn't get a PvP timer during the time you're in space after logging off, Safe Logoffs would be rather pointless, wouldn't they, since that's the specific event they're designed to prevent.
That was a common question when safe logoffs were introduced: why bother? The only answer I remember at the time was that you were sure the process had finished, and you could abort it and respond at any time, unlike if you just log off in empty space…


I seem to remember CCP changing their minds about the ability to flag people during the 60s after they logoff due to the lack (at the time) of an NPC timer to keep ships from logging out before tackle to escape. I just can't seem to find where they said it.

But it's been true (and I've known it to be true) since Crucible was released, so I'm convinced a Dev mentioned it. (It's unusual for me to hallucinate and get the right answer by trusting said hallucination)
It's what stops Freighters from moving through LS unscouted in the traditional way (logoff before coming out of gate cloak if there are hostiles).

Anyway, I think that if you catch someone's ship, you should be able to destroy it. Now that the safe logoff function exists, not using it comes with the risk of someone finding and shooting you in the 60s before you vanish.


The Wiki's got an accurate description of the mechanics.
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/PvP_Logout_Timer (Made Accurate 12/19/2012)
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Logging_out (Made Accurate though with a contradictory statement nearby, 2/24/2012)

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Nex apparatu5
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#75 - 2013-04-20 13:15:17 UTC
I lost an archon because I started warp, logged off with no flags while in warp, landed and began my e-warp, and got caught by a dictor bubble maybe half a second before the e-warp engaged. I thought that if you didnt have aggression when you logged off, your ship would be removed from the game after 60 seconds. After roughly 3 minutes of watching it get shot, i logged back in to try to save it, but to no avail.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#76 - 2013-04-20 13:48:13 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Tippia wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
And I've seen other devs saying differently.
Source? And more importantly: timing?

Almost two months after your source https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2235188#post2235188
So it was definitely changed during the development process. After all this is part of the reason for the safe logoff function.
CCP Masterplan wrote:
Also note that now you can still pick up a PVP flag AFTER logging off (but before the ship is removed), and so be held in space indefinitely.

There's also of course http://community.eveonline.com/news/patch-notes/patch-notes-for-retribution-1
Quote:
PVP Timer:
This flag can be created and extended indefinitely whilst logged off, if your ship is not safely removed from space beforehand.



So it's not just "dev said this somewhere in the development process", it's actually what went into the game.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#77 - 2013-04-20 13:59:55 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Caviar Liberta wrote:
SmilingVagrant wrote:
Angelique Duchemin wrote:
When lone pilots own and move titan alts around null to gank ratting Carriers then I feel that titans need a hit of reality. An expensive one.


Are you playing a different game than I am?


I also am interested in knowing more about these titans that can "gank" carriers.

It's called a doomsday device - fully skilled a single shot does 3,000,000 damage. You can only use it in nullsec, though.
The reason people don't do this very often (hence SmilingVagrant's skepticism) is because using it means being unable to cloak or jump for 10 minutes. So unless you have a POS in the system where you're ganking, it's probably too risky to attempt.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Alekksander Geinesa
Divine Mortals
#78 - 2013-04-30 18:40:56 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Caviar Liberta wrote:
SmilingVagrant wrote:
Angelique Duchemin wrote:
When lone pilots own and move titan alts around null to gank ratting Carriers then I feel that titans need a hit of reality. An expensive one.


Are you playing a different game than I am?


I also am interested in knowing more about these titans that can "gank" carriers.

It's called a doomsday device - fully skilled a single shot does 3,000,000 damage. You can only use it in nullsec, though.
The reason people don't do this very often (hence SmilingVagrant's skepticism) is because using it means being unable to cloak or jump for 10 minutes. So unless you have a POS in the system where you're ganking, it's probably too risky to attempt.



People do this all the time though........ Yes its a bad idea, but I have been parts of ops that go simply like this.....



1.) Black ops bridge in blockade runner with tower and 2 hours fuel
2.) BR sets up tower
3.) Cyno in titan
4.) gank carrier
5.) warp to pos
6.) smack in local
7.) jump out titan
8.) ????
9.) profit
sevyn nine
Cutting Edge Incorporated
#79 - 2013-04-30 19:02:59 UTC
Jacob Holland wrote:
Given that the pilot cannot abort the warp I would suggest that the same rules would apply as with dual vindi-webs on undock which, as I recall, was declared an exploit.
It might, given the levels of organisation required on the part of the agressors, be treated somewhat more leniently - but I would pre-assume an exploit and avoid its use.


I agree with this. It would be mind-blowingly stupid not to declare this an exploit. The Titan is essentially "stuck" with no option for recourse (other than call a bunch of friends), and is exactly like the dual-web-on-the-undock WTF I CAN'T DO ANYTHING situation.
Jarod Garamonde
Jolly Codgers
Get Off My Lawn
#80 - 2013-04-30 19:26:16 UTC
Nobody ever pays me in "being on titan killmails" :(

That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...

    [#savethelance]