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The Odyssey of the lost weapon systems
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Zen Sarum
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2013-04-19 19:57:56 UTC
So something was missed... You went straight on to battleship weapons?

Medium long range turrets have been broken for a long time.

To explain:

All with highest damage ammo medium sized 'long range' T1 weapons with no skills applied:

Railguns
medicore, medicore, medium range, cap use
Dual 150mm 1.65/3.9x24=10.15 6km+6km 0.044 rad/s <- completely useless
200mm 2.2/4.88x24=10.8 10.5km+10km 0.029 rad/s <- poor range bad alpha
250mm 3.025/6.3x24=11.52 12km+12km 0.024 rad/s <- poor range bad alpha


Artillery
low tracking, high alpha, no cap use, flexable damage type, highest range (with falloff):
quad 280mm <- missing useless weapon system
650mm 4.62 /12.75x24=8.7 8.1km+17.5km 0.0275 rad/s <- good range good alpha
720mm 7.97 / 20x24=9.56 10km+17.5km 0.022 rad/s <- good range good alpha


Beam lasers
Highest cap use, highest tracking, bad range, reusable ammo.
Quad light beam 1.5/3.15x24=11.43 4km+1km 0.081 rad/s <- completely useless
Focused beam 2 / 4.8x24=10 8.75km+6km 0.042 rad/s <- terrible range bad alpha
Heavy beam laser 3 / 6x24=12 10km+8km 0.033 rad/s <- terrible range bad alpha

Heavy missiles 135/15 = 9 6.5x4.3= 27.95km <- very good range, flexable but poor application of damage

All medium long range guns do about the same DPS. Compared to other weapons DPS is pretty anemic.

Heavy missiles are good as they are.

Medium Railguns and beam lasers are hard to fit and for this they cause little damage and are completely overshadowed by all other weapon systems of a similar or larger size.




Proposal:
I see medium long range weapons as fire support, not primary DPS but able to pick out targets of opportunity outside the effective range of most larger weapons. Today only artillary can do this, more out of luck with falloff/alpha being king rather then by intent.

There should be a +5% increase in ROF for all medium artillery, rails and beams.
There should be a +2.5% increase in damage on heavy missiles to keep them in line.
Optimal range for medium rails should be increased by 40% and fall off by -10% to make them a viable long range weapon.
medium beam lasers need to have 25% higher optimal range to make them a high tracking medium range weapon.
Felsusguy
Panopticon Engineering
#2 - 2013-04-19 20:10:01 UTC
If I recall correctly, out of the long-range turret types:

Beam is supposed to be the highest-tracking, shortest-range turret.
Artillery is supposed to be the intermediate.
Railgun is supposed to be the lowest-tracking, longest-range turret.

But from the data you have here, it appears they are broken. I would have never realized this.

Good job.

The Caldari put business before pleasure. The Gallente put business in pleasure.
ExAstra
Echoes of Silence
#3 - 2013-04-19 20:16:48 UTC  |  Edited by: ExAstra
Quad Light Beam appears to be the best choice. Get it? Appears? Cuz they're the coolest looking? No? Okay.

But yeah those numbers made me throw up a little holy crap.

Save the drones!
Ines Tegator
Serious Business Inc. Ltd. LLC. etc.
#4 - 2013-04-19 20:44:57 UTC
Bump for great justice.

It's especially telling how bad the lowest-tier weapons (quad beams, dual 180mm, etc) are. They get worse range, worse tracking, and worse DPS than the short range turrets. That just screams total neglect.

Overhaul Dscan!
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#5 - 2013-04-19 21:14:32 UTC
Good post, +1

.
Mole Guy
Bob's Bait and Tackle
#6 - 2013-04-19 21:40:25 UTC
one cannot argue with facts presented like this.

to me, the low tier dual weapons are like 2-4 small weapons mounted on a cruiser turret. they should have better tracking than actual frig models because you have more power available and larger drive motors to spin the lighte mounts around.
it should only have the range of light weapons, double light weapon damage (or whatever is equivelent), but superior tracking. so, if i want to put the duals on my cruiser, they need to come in close, but once they do, they're mine. would make great anti-frig gun boats without having to use auto-cannons...either you setup anti frig, or you switch to larger cruiser weapons.

the long range stuff, on the other hand, need a huge boost. its heavy pulse or go home...
on my muninn, the 720's are good for a long range setup. they hit hard and do well. low rof tho. typical minie stuff.
i havent used medium rails in so long i dont have a comment, but beams and whatnot are wack!
Castor Narcissus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2013-04-19 23:24:55 UTC
Even after Hybrid buff, medium railguns are in a sad state. Larger shouldn't be generally better.

Imo the smaller guns should have ~50% dps of the blaster/AC/pulse variants but the same tracking, maybe then someone would use them.