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GM Double standarts

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mailsteg
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2013-04-19 07:47:03 UTC
Hello to everyone,
After few petitions for the last 2 years and no results, I've decided to write here and to ask CCP for a favor.
It's about an exploit and my request is that rules are equal for everyone!!!
I know that we are a small alliance and most of us pay for the game with PLEX (ISK), but its not a reason to be treated differently than players from the big alliances.

We've written a few petitions for the last 2 years about this exploit, but there was no proper response or actions. So we started using it too and withing the hour, a GM comes into the system where we used it and we got an all-alliance-ban warning. For doing same thing, players from a very big alliance didn't get punished and they are still using this exploit to this day.

P.S It's against the rules to give more information about the case, but if this post has no effect, I will post here the names of the GMs with copy from the petitions.
Speedy McSpeed
Galactic Exploration and Mining Corporation
#2 - 2013-04-19 07:49:36 UTC
It's very hard to sympathise or even give your complaint much weight when you provide no details, not even a hint at what the issue your complaining about.
Anunzi
Solace Corp
#3 - 2013-04-19 07:51:52 UTC


This is going to be about RMT isn't it...

"It was the way she said it, Rimmer, to rhyme with scum"
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#4 - 2013-04-19 07:54:55 UTC
Well, that's great isn't it?
Now you have a precedent to refer to for future petitions.

Also, you understand that when you petition someone, you're not going to learn what the effect is — whether they act on it or let it go, CCP will not report back to you what their decision is.
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#5 - 2013-04-19 07:55:45 UTC
mailsteg wrote:
if this post has no effect, I will post here the names of the GMs with copy from the petitions.

We do not negotiate with terrorists.

Oh god.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2013-04-19 07:56:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Solstice Project
I'M IN !!! I'M IN !!! \:D/

edit: Now that i have read the post: There is an internal affairs at CCP for a reason.
Seek the mail and write THEM, not here. This thread will only get locked. ^_^
Octoven
Stellar Production
#7 - 2013-04-19 07:59:19 UTC
Speedy McSpeed wrote:
It's very hard to sympathise or even give your complaint much weight when you provide no details, not even a hint at what the issue your complaining about.


Granted its hard to give details when doing so is a bannable offense on here too.
Azami Nevinyrall
172.0.0.1
#8 - 2013-04-19 08:01:30 UTC
Anunzi wrote:


This is going to be about RMT isn't it...

I was thinking the same thing.

...
Octoven
Stellar Production
#9 - 2013-04-19 08:03:38 UTC
As a side note, I would like to know what these exploits are. Forum rules state you can't bring up a challenge being handled with a GM; however, they do not forbid discussing a possible exploit in the game so the player base is more informed. Although you can't release info about the GMs and who they are and what their responses are, you can release what you think the exploit is though.
Sipphakta en Gravonere
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2013-04-19 08:04:47 UTC
mailsteg wrote:
We've written a few petitions for the last 2 years about this exploit, but there was no proper response or actions. So we started using it too and withing the hour, a GM comes into the system where we used it and we got an all-alliance-ban warning. For doing same thing, players from a very big alliance didn't get punished and they are still using this exploit to this day.


Lucky for you, now you have definite ruling that it is an exploit, whatever the hell "it" is. That means you can get your ship reimbursed if you lose it to the very same tactic.
mailsteg
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2013-04-19 08:06:47 UTC
Octoven wrote:
As a side note, I would like to know what these exploits are. Forum rules state you can't bring up a challenge being handled with a GM; however, they do not forbid discussing a possible exploit in the game so the player base is more informed. Although you can't release info about the GMs and who they are and what their responses are, you can release what you think the exploit is though.



Its not that serious as RMT
Its simple exploit of generating lag by using drones, wrecks or cans on the gate
and yes we do know the results of our petitions GM inform us about it .
Octoven
Stellar Production
#12 - 2013-04-19 08:10:36 UTC
mailsteg wrote:
Octoven wrote:
As a side note, I would like to know what these exploits are. Forum rules state you can't bring up a challenge being handled with a GM; however, they do not forbid discussing a possible exploit in the game so the player base is more informed. Although you can't release info about the GMs and who they are and what their responses are, you can release what you think the exploit is though.



Its not that serious as RMT
Its simple exploit of generating lag by using drones, wrecks or cans on the gate
and yes we do know the results of our petitions GM inform us about it .


You may know the results, Im just saying petition results aren't supposed to be handled in the forums. As for the exploit...Im not exactly sure why a GM would threaten to ban an alliance for engaging in these activities when they are clearly part of the game design and purpose. Server lag is an issue with CCP not being able to keep up, it has nothing to do with a group of players allowed or not allowed to do something.
Djana Libra
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#13 - 2013-04-19 08:13:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Djana Libra
why would a GM use a dart?

Also if you get a warning for exploiting be happy you just got a warning.

And well if you see some other alliance use the same exploit just petition them.

And it has been stated that this is an illegal exploit long long ago so stop using it.

and finally IBTL
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#14 - 2013-04-19 08:13:09 UTC
Octoven wrote:
As for the exploit...Im not exactly sure why a GM would threaten to ban an alliance for engaging in these activities when they are clearly part of the game design and purpose.
Because deliberately causing lag is not part of the design or purpose of the game, and is very clearly against the rules.
Afandi
Otbor Chereshka
#15 - 2013-04-19 08:15:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Afandi
Octoven wrote:
mailsteg wrote:
Octoven wrote:
As a side note, I would like to know what these exploits are. Forum rules state you can't bring up a challenge being handled with a GM; however, they do not forbid discussing a possible exploit in the game so the player base is more informed. Although you can't release info about the GMs and who they are and what their responses are, you can release what you think the exploit is though.



Its not that serious as RMT
Its simple exploit of generating lag by using drones, wrecks or cans on the gate
and yes we do know the results of our petitions GM inform us about it .


You may know the results, Im just saying petition results aren't supposed to be handled in the forums. As for the exploit...Im not exactly sure why a GM would threaten to ban an alliance for engaging in these activities when they are clearly part of the game design and purpose. Server lag is an issue with CCP not being able to keep up, it has nothing to do with a group of players allowed or not allowed to do something.


Creating multiple jetcans/anchoring containers/abandoning drones on gates is frowned upon by CCP and there are multiple cases when there was a GM intervention, when such activities were spotted.
Unfortunately, some are more equal than others, as it seems. The spirit of t20 lives on.
Arronicus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#16 - 2013-04-19 08:15:59 UTC
Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:
mailsteg wrote:
We've written a few petitions for the last 2 years about this exploit, but there was no proper response or actions. So we started using it too and withing the hour, a GM comes into the system where we used it and we got an all-alliance-ban warning. For doing same thing, players from a very big alliance didn't get punished and they are still using this exploit to this day.


Lucky for you, now you have definite ruling that it is an exploit, whatever the hell "it" is. That means you can get your ship reimbursed if you lose it to the very same tactic.


If only it worked that way. They will be dealing with a different GM team, regarding ship reimbursements, instead of exploiting/hacking/cheating, and THOSE gms will likely say that they don't see anything wrong.
Octoven
Stellar Production
#17 - 2013-04-19 08:17:52 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Octoven wrote:
As for the exploit...Im not exactly sure why a GM would threaten to ban an alliance for engaging in these activities when they are clearly part of the game design and purpose.
Because deliberately causing lag is not part of the design or purpose of the game, and is very clearly against the rules.


So creating a live event with 1400 ppl in a system with a non-reinforced node and severe tidi isn't against the rules?

Deploying drones, cans...ect... is NOT deliberately causing lag. The moment a GM decides that these actions are is when eve stops becoming a sandbox and starts to become a prison. The GM has no idea if I have deployed these items for a useful purpose or not...I mean by the explanation you just have given, I can be banned for engaging in blob fleets...they obviously cause lag spikes as well yes?
cheese monkey
Follow-up Destruction
#18 - 2013-04-19 08:18:00 UTC
Oh dude, petitions do nothing.

CCP really don't care about you at all. They are getting their $$ each month. The EULA says that they can do whatever they want whenever and don't have to treat you better than the S*** on their shoe... and it shows.

--

http://eveboard.com/ub/627817229-39.png
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#19 - 2013-04-19 08:18:38 UTC
Arronicus wrote:
If only it worked that way. They will be dealing with a different GM team, regarding ship reimbursements, instead of exploiting/hacking/cheating, and THOSE gms will likely say that they don't see anything wrong.

…at which point you refer them to the previous ruling and contest their decision, or escalate it to clear up the difference and make the head GMs knock some sense into their underlings.
ISD LackOfFaith
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#20 - 2013-04-19 08:18:58 UTC
Quote:

9. Posting of private CCP communication is prohibited.

The posting of private communication between the Game Masters, EVE Team members, Moderators, Administrators of the forums and forum users is prohibited. CCP respect the right of our players to privacy and as such you are not permitted to publicize private correspondence (including petition responses and emails) received from any of the aforementioned parties.

10. Discussion of warnings and bans is prohibited.

Such matters shall remain private between CCP and the involved user. Questions or comments concerning warnings and bans will be conveyed through email or private messaging. CCP respect the right of our players to privacy and as such you are not permitted to publicize private correspondence (including petition responses and emails) received from any of the aforementioned parties.

15. Posting about bugs and exploits is prohibited.

Bugs and exploits should be reported through the proper channels. Bugs should be brought to the attention of CCP by filing a bug report for our Quality Assurance department. More information on filing bug reports can be found here. Discussions about unverified issues in game can cause unnecessary panic in the community. When there is an issue that the EVE Online community needs to be aware of, it will be communicated via an official statement from CCP after thorough investigation.

30. Abuse of CCP employees and ISD volunteers is prohibited.

CCP operate a zero tolerance policy on abuse of CCP employees and ISD volunteers. This includes but is not limited to personal attacks, trolling, “outing” of CCP employee or ISD volunteer player identities, and the use of any former player identities when referring to the aforementioned parties.
Our forums are designed to be a place where players and developers can exchange ideas in a polite and friendly manner for the betterment of EVE Online. Players who attack or abuse employees of CCP, or ISD volunteers, will be permanently banned from the EVE Online forums across all their accounts with no recourse, and may also be subject to action against their game accounts.

31. Rumor mongering is prohibited.

Rumor threads and posts which are based off no actual solid information and are designed to either troll or annoy other users will be locked and removed. These kinds of threads and posts are detrimental to the wellbeing and spirit of the EVE Online Community, and can create undue panic among forum users, as well as adding to the workload of our moderators.


While bringing up specifics of the petitions or potential exploit involved is indeed against the forum rules, discussing specific GM warnings is also prohibited. Additionally, discussion of exploits is also prohibited. As such, this thread is locked.

As always, if you believe that there is any misconduct or favoritism that a CCP employee is involved in, the right venue is CCP's Internal Affairs department, not the forums or other forms of public communication.

Lastly, threatening to reveal the identities of GMs (and thus threatening to publish private communications) is not okay. As such, this thread will also be forwarded to the Community Team for review.

ISD LackOfFaith

Captain

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

I do not respond to Eve Mail or anything other than the forums.