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Moving All Level 4 Agents to Low-Sec

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MrDiao
Fuxi Legion
Fraternity.
#261 - 2013-04-18 11:37:51 UTC  |  Edited by: MrDiao
Typically a troll op followed by loads of off-topic debates.

Moving lv5 to low-sec has not changed much on carebears, the same as lv4s.

If op really believes that anyone in ccp would consider things in this way, either you are terribly underestimate ccp staff's intelligence or they appeared to you that they are stupid as such.
Tara Read
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#262 - 2013-04-18 11:47:28 UTC
LHA Tarawa wrote:
Tara Read wrote:

I was merely stating that HS dwellers NEED to learn very basic elementary mechanics such as:

1. watching local.

2. turning on active hardeners etc. Gankers scan ships so if they see a well defended target likely they will pass it up and go for another.

3. being pre aligned to a celestial or station.

4. use D scan.

These are very basic yet powerful tools a player can use to protect themselves. However you can't do that if you are afk.... Roll


Doing those things is not the problem.

The problem is that if we go to low sec to run a mission, someone (or group) will show up to hunt us, forcing us to jump safe to safe for 5 minutes waiting for the aggression timer to go away so we can log off safely, waiting for the hunter to get bored and move on, so we can come back.

All that "down time" from guns on red + DESTROIES the profitability. Move L4s to low sec, and you simply reduce the profitability of L4s to less than that of L3s in high sec without all the down time.


Null has the same problem. Sure, if local is blue, Null can be more profitable than high sec. Unfortunately, one cloaky camper, and the system is totally shut down. If I spend 75% of my time logged off, docked up, or sitting in the POS shield because of a single cloaky camper... well... there is nothing you can do to "balance" of high sec vs. null sec profit that makes null profitable enough to compensate for the fact that one cloaky camper can shut down an entire solar system.


Rock, Paper, Scissors works as a game because for every strategy, there is a counter. Rock, Paper, Scissors, Nuke Bomb... not so effective as a game. Cloaky camper = nuke bomb. There is no strategy to counter it, other than to not play when a cloaky camper show up.... or, as I've done... just move back to high sec.


Again I never stated moving Level 4's to low sec and as far as profitability it's there with level 5's you just need to blitz them correctly. Like I stated earlier risk vs reward. The main problem is the reward is vastly outweighed by the risk which is partly low sec's problem.

Without a desire to go to low sec with content, it creates stagnation. That's my main gripe not moving missions and choking peoples ability to earn a profit in Eve. All i desire is more content for all. That isn't too much to ask is it?
Tara Read
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#263 - 2013-04-18 11:49:39 UTC
Princess Missie wrote:



tara read still talking **** RollRoll


Umm not really. If half the high sec players would just watch local and use D scan alot of ganks would probably be avoided.
Radamant Nemess
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
#264 - 2013-04-18 12:06:39 UTC
Yeah wise*ss, move them to lowsec and eve loses several thousand players.. Roll

i can fail at any speed you like
Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#265 - 2013-04-18 12:23:30 UTC
Tara Read wrote:
... If half the high sec players would just watch local...
In Highsec? I leave station in Highsec and there are +80 people in local. During the next 30 minutes 10-20 will leave and another 10-20 will enter.... 95% of whom are set neutral. What does this do for me? Sure if someone is 'flashy' there is a situation somewhere, but this is usually after the fact.

In 0.0 or lowsec local gives me immediate intel... 'Blue' = good, 'Red' = bad, 'neutral' = bad waiting to happen. In highsec this is not the case. Local is a very weak tool in highsec... that doesn't mean I don't watch it, but it is massively weaker tool in highsec.
Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#266 - 2013-04-18 12:39:16 UTC
Tara Read wrote:
... Like I stated earlier risk vs reward. The main problem is the reward is vastly outweighed by the risk which is partly low sec's problem. Without a desire to go to low sec with content, it creates stagnation. That's my main gripe not ...
I agree with this. However,... (you knew that was coming)... L4s are the wrong way to go. Moving L5s was extremely stupid also.

You start at the other end of the equation: in tutorial or L1s. In L1s after 10 missions offer an optional bonus mission: high ISK reward and little no ISK risk to lowsec. If accepted, put the L1 player in a T1 frigate and give them a mission into lowssec to do something. Should they be destroyed (and they will often), the L1 runner will have lost nothing. (make sure implants are protected). Risk of being destroyed high, payout high, actual ISK loss at stake for the new player,,, nothing.

Teach new players who are interested that losing a ship isn't the end of the world. Show them that lowsec while dangerous can be managed/enjoyed. A 1M ISK reward to drop of a piece of paper to a level 1 runner is huge, especially if their risk is nothing.

No one is force to do it.... many will try... some will like it.
Moneta Curran
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#267 - 2013-04-18 12:40:24 UTC
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:
Local is a very weak tool in highsec... that doesn't mean I don't watch it, but it is massively weaker tool in highsec.


I'm pretty sure he meant whenever they venture into low sec. Still, you could also reconfigure your overview? Idea
Seleia O'Sinnor
Drop of Honey
#268 - 2013-04-18 12:48:11 UTC
posting on page 10+

Odyssey: Repacking in POS hangars for modules +1,  but please for other stuff too, especially containers. Make containers openable in POS hangars.
Unoob Udumb
Doomheim
#269 - 2013-04-18 12:57:37 UTC
Tara Read wrote:
Like I stated earlier risk vs reward. The main problem is the reward is vastly outweighed by the risk which is partly low sec's problem.


You do realize that the issue comes from the "A SHIP/POD! KILL! KILL! KILL!" mentality of most low-sec dwellers, right?

Let's say a large group of players locked down a hi-sec system by suicide-ganking anyone entering it. Would you ask CCP to move all hi-sec agents in this particular system? Or to buff the rewards of missions in this system? The problem is player-side, not game mechanics-side.

Tara Read wrote:
All i desire is more content for all. That isn't too much to ask is it?


I don't think forcing Hi-sec mission runners to leave the game or to run L3s (because, let's face it, they wouldn't move to lowsec) is the right way to create "more content for all".
Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#270 - 2013-04-18 13:05:49 UTC
Moneta Curran wrote:


I'm pretty sure he meant whenever they venture into low sec. Still, you could also reconfigure your overview? Idea
My mistake. Sad
Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#271 - 2013-04-18 13:15:03 UTC
Unoob Udumb wrote:

You do realize that the issue comes from the "A SHIP/POD! KILL! KILL! KILL!" mentality of most low-sec dwellers, right?
I use a no skill alt as a scout in lowsec. When it gets podded, I send the killer a smiley face. My suffering/Isk loss is fairly low in this situation.

If a week old player had a 50% of receiving a 1M ISK, with no chnace of ISK loss on his part...what is the problem?
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#272 - 2013-04-18 13:23:59 UTC
Moneta Curran wrote:
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:
Local is a very weak tool in highsec... that doesn't mean I don't watch it, but it is massively weaker tool in highsec.


I'm pretty sure he meant whenever they venture into low sec. Still, you could also reconfigure your overview? Idea

overview only shows you ships on your grid. How it will help with local?

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#273 - 2013-04-18 13:43:51 UTC  |  Edited by: March rabbit
Moneta Curran wrote:
I suppose the concept of having to fend for yourself is just too alien to consider...

it's not alien. but you don't like this concept already. because carebears already do "fend for yourself": they have chosen high-sec Lol

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Moneta Curran
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#274 - 2013-04-18 13:53:35 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
Moneta Curran wrote:
Still, you could also reconfigure your overview? Idea

overview only shows you ships on your grid. How it will help with local?


also.

March rabbit wrote:
Moneta Curran wrote:
I suppose the concept of having to fend for yourself is just too alien to consider...

it's not alien. but you don't like this concept already. because carebears already do "fend to yourself": they have chosen high-sec Lol



fend for yourself
— phrasal verb with fend

/fend/ verb
Definition
to take care of and provide for yourself without depending on anyone else

anyone or anything in this context, be it CONCORD or your own personal guard of faction police as that guy was proposing..
Solj RichPopolous
Silent Havok.
H A R D L I N E R S
#275 - 2013-04-18 13:53:57 UTC
I endorse this product and or service. It benefits my business of deadspace trading. I trade at least 40-50 items daily with the lowest of profits typically being 20 mil per each some as high as 300-400 mil. This is where the real money is go scrap for your pennies in the mind numbingness of missions. The more deadspace dies the more it comes back to me.

Oh how I love the feeling of receiving a 600 mil module for 300 mil on buy order. Then subsequently looking up the seller and seeing that he just ganked some missioner. And as an EVE online space republican I'm very against the accumulation of wealth by other individuals other than those in my posse.

So with that I say send the missions to low-sec I will probably kill a few myself. If they want to stay in high sec and scrap even less pennies that's their own problem.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#276 - 2013-04-18 14:08:52 UTC
Moneta Curran wrote:

/fend/ verb
Definition
to take care of and provide for yourself without depending on anyone else

thanks but i deduced this word from context.

Moneta Curran wrote:
anyone or anything in this context, be it CONCORD or your own personal guard of faction police as that guy was proposing..

yes i see. however Eve Online is MMO and you can't do well here if only fend for yourself. The most successful entities in the game are alliances and corporations. The game is designed around player groups.

So you would better say: depending on NPC (which is game mechanics). Then i agree.

Note:
- gate camps - totally organized around game mechanics
- station games - totally organized around game mechanics
- many other pvp strategies organized around game mechanics too

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#277 - 2013-04-18 14:43:54 UTC
Moneta Curran wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Still, since it's not in the paradigm of total ship raep masquerading as PVP, nobody would support such an idea.



So this intervention force would swoop down to save you upon any act of aggression? Roll

.. and you want this pet NPC patrol to become stronger the more dedicated a carebear you have been in past ages?
I am sure newbies everywhere will applaud the idea of having even less of a fighting chance.

TBH the whole idea sucks, you are basically advocating bringing CONCORD to low sec. I suppose the concept of having to fend for yourself is just too alien to consider...



Case in point.

And in the usual fashion, you didn't read the whole thing. Chances are you also do this to RL news and have aided tyranny when you vote too. We talk about you "only partially paying attention" masses and the damage you do, you know that?


But thanks for highlighting and proving my final point.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Moneta Curran
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#278 - 2013-04-18 15:03:27 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:

Case in point.

And in the usual fashion, you didn't read the whole thing. Chances are you also do this to RL news and have aided tyranny when you vote too. We talk about you "only partially paying attention" masses and the damage you do, you know that?


But thanks for highlighting and proving my final point.


What do you presume to know about my reading habits? I did read the whole thing and I reached the conclusion you quote.
Nice how you're almost pulling a Godwin there.

The original idea you elaborated upon was garbage and you actually managed to make it worse.
sci0gon
Kaira Innovations
#279 - 2013-04-18 15:52:57 UTC
mechtech wrote:
I'll refine the suggestion. (because frankly, that will never happen)

Increase the income spread between high sec and low sec agents, so that high sec provides considerably less income and low-sec slightly more than now. That way, Massive amounts of content won't be stripped from high sec, while the high-sec/low-sec income spread is increased to where many people feel it should be.


(sarcasm)

how about dropping the npc's bounties again? that way it affects everyone even the ratters in 0.0 and forcing a set price on moon minerals so the market wont go over that, i'd say -30% of current jita market pricing. also only a 5% profit margin on PI stuff.

(/sarcasm)

im sure a lot of you wouldn't be happy with this propose sarcastic change either since it would cut into your wallets as well.
DSpite Culhach
#280 - 2013-04-18 17:34:30 UTC
Mei Sui wrote:
Ready the flamethrowers, but I think it's time to consider moving the level 4 agents to low sec.


People that want to find you and kill you always have the initial advantage over someone just trying to get things done, regardless if it's running missions, or just flying from A to B. The only way to counter that is to always travel in fleets, be on voice comms, have PvP capable ships, scout ahead, run missions and mine with friends etc etc, and this is basically what EVE Uni has as it's WSOP, and it's how things should be.

This is all good and fine in principle, as EVE is for group oriented PvP.

In practice though, if you turn the act of going to the shops to buy milk into a logistic operation that needs 4 people EVERY SINGLE TIME, you turn EVE into a second job rather then a game for a large section of people.

Is EVE meant to be like that? Maybe it is, maybe the carebears should go play Hello Kitty Online. EVE is harsh, and should punish you every time you blink for too long, but by the gods, you have to draw a line somewhere.

Right now I just roam Hisec and see what CCP has done with the universe, but for all I care CCP can just punch a hole in space where Hisec is and force everyone to pick sides and live in null sec somewhere. I'm sure I'd adapt, and if that failed, I'd just Plex ships and just go on random roams in cheap stuff to get exploded when I'm online, but the fact still remain that if you keep taking away content to force players to move, rather then create more interesting content elsewhere that attracts them there, you basically ... well, peeve them off for no good reason.

The whole problem with missions now is how static they are. You can look up triggers, spawns, distances, etc, and the word "farming" enters the equation, and I think the "farming" part is what you're really complaining about, so I'd rather have missions turn into a group activity instead, and missions scripts made way less predictable, personally.

I apparently have no idea what I'm doing.