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A Rational Method for Updating Ship Stats
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Tessla Coil
Pirannha Corp
#1 - 2013-04-17 15:11:14 UTC
Hey Fozzie, who about doing things rationally, and updating an ENTIRE hull class, instead of hopscotching all around the hull sizes and cherry-picking creating all kinds of imbalances?

A far more responsible method would have been to do an analysis and overhaul (if necessary) stats on ALL frig hulls, including the EAF, and pirate hulls, then moving onto cruisers, then BC's, then Battleships.

Instead, we have a mess where we have entire ship classes completely marginalized (eg HAC's) while you figure out what works and doesn't work. The current method makes it look like you have no clue as to what to do with certain ship classes, like the EAF's, pirate frigs, Recon's, HAC's, etc, etc.

Outside of the standard corporate response "Soon", when are we going to see an entire hull size class overhaul completed?
Tyrendian Biohazard
The Bastards
Sedition.
#2 - 2013-04-17 15:17:18 UTC
Tessla Coil wrote:

Outside of the standard corporate response "Soon", when are we going to see an entire hull size class overhaul completed?


"When it's ready"

Twitch streamer and EVE NT tournament broadcaster.
Isha Rose
Doomheim
#3 - 2013-04-17 15:20:19 UTC
Tessla Coil wrote:


Outside of the standard corporate response "Soon", when are we going to see an entire hull size class overhaul completed?


Pretty sure they've said in the past that their tackling T1 hulls first before moving on to T2.
Haulie Berry
#4 - 2013-04-17 15:26:44 UTC
I don't have access to any photo-editing software right now, so just pretend I posted a link to an image of a pacifier with the Tech-II symbol in the corner.
Tessla Coil
Pirannha Corp
#5 - 2013-04-17 15:27:13 UTC
Isha Rose wrote:
Tessla Coil wrote:


Outside of the standard corporate response "Soon", when are we going to see an entire hull size class overhaul completed?


Pretty sure they've said in the past that their tackling T1 hulls first before moving on to T2.


So why have they bypassed pirate frig and cruiser hulls then, yet overhauled T1 BS's, T1 BC's, posted new stats for command ships and T3 CS's, and created brand new Navy BC's. Oh yeah, and overhauled T2 Assault Frigs

It smacks of not knowing what to do with the ship classes they have ignored.
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#6 - 2013-04-17 15:27:25 UTC
Why not just throw the candy into the masses instead of giving everybody a few one by one? So people get their candy immediately and don't have to wait in line.
[It's a terrible mess, that's why.]

Sovereignty and Population

New Mining Mechanics
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#7 - 2013-04-17 15:28:37 UTC
Yeah, they're doing T2 hulls after the Summer. There are only 8 Command Ships, so they might take on another size of hull at the same time, possibly Marauders?

Oh god.
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#8 - 2013-04-17 15:29:34 UTC
Tessla Coil wrote:
So why have they bypassed pirate frig and cruiser hulls then

They haven't. Do you read the information on this forum?

Oh god.
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#9 - 2013-04-17 15:37:50 UTC
Tessla Coil wrote:
Hey Fozzie, who about doing things rationally, and updating an ENTIRE hull class, instead of hopscotching all around the hull sizes and cherry-picking creating all kinds of imbalances?


Speaking of rational - what did you accidentally here?

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
Tessla Coil
Pirannha Corp
#10 - 2013-04-17 15:42:15 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
Tessla Coil wrote:
So why have they bypassed pirate frig and cruiser hulls then

They haven't. Do you read the information on this forum?


What are you talking about?
Of all the threads created in the past weeks, zero refer to pirate hulls.
Ginger Barbarella
#11 - 2013-04-17 15:50:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Ginger Barbarella
Tessla Coil wrote:
Isha Rose wrote:
Tessla Coil wrote:


Outside of the standard corporate response "Soon", when are we going to see an entire hull size class overhaul completed?


Pretty sure they've said in the past that their tackling T1 hulls first before moving on to T2.


So why have they bypassed pirate frig and cruiser hulls then, yet overhauled T1 BS's, T1 BC's, posted new stats for command ships and T3 CS's, and created brand new Navy BC's. Oh yeah, and overhauled T2 Assault Frigs

It smacks of not knowing what to do with the ship classes they have ignored.


IF they're doing it wrong, may I suggest you either a) take over the company and name yourself CEO, or b) create your own intarwebz spaceship game and set up the ships as YOU like?

Given that you know EXACTLY what's going on at CCP in corporate planning, game development, resource management, and so on.

In other words, stfu.

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#12 - 2013-04-17 15:52:54 UTC
The t2 lineup has some minor imbalances that should be fixed. Most t2 ships are useful in some fashion, if slightly marginalized in a few cases.

The t1 lineup, pre-tiericide, was completely and utterly ****** with only one or two useful ships per class. Wasting time on t2 ships that have actually had attention in the past few years would be a waste when the t1 lineup was so completely bad. Fozzie's focus on redoing t1 ships has done more to improve ship diversity in PVP than any other change in EVE since I started.


I would love to see t2 changes but they can wait.
Marcus Junius
Nephilim Ordo
#13 - 2013-04-17 15:53:33 UTC
Tessla Coil wrote:
Isha Rose wrote:
Tessla Coil wrote:


Outside of the standard corporate response "Soon", when are we going to see an entire hull size class overhaul completed?


Pretty sure they've said in the past that their tackling T1 hulls first before moving on to T2.


So why have they bypassed pirate frig and cruiser hulls then,...


Pirate is not equal to T1.

The seem to be going in the below order, except for some specific classes that they feel need more help than others.
Be warned, you may not agree with their opinion in regards to that.

T1 -> faction -> pirate -> T2 -> T3
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#14 - 2013-04-17 15:56:09 UTC
CCP will get to all the ships in time. Balancing is not a simple proceedure. Lots of things need to be considered, and lots of code needs to be modified. If the thread about the Gallente Battleships has taught us anything, its that balancing takes time and much discussion..even before coding and eventually testing can begin.

Please be patient.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#15 - 2013-04-17 16:08:48 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:

  • Blood Raiders: Bhaalgorn is nice, Ashimmu and Cruor need some iteration. Need to find ways to make them useful at what they do without them competing too much with the Amarr Recon Ships.

  • Sansha's Nation: Nightmare is very good, Phantasm and Succubus also need some love. Probably going to need to have a look at their mobility and EHP. Open to ideas however, so this thread will be watched.

  • Guristas: Rattlesnake and Gila we are happy with, not so much with the Worm.

  • Serpentis: we are quite pleased with all the ships in this line.

  • Angel Cartel: while the Dramiel has been brought back into line, the Cynabal and Machariel need a nerf. Not necessarily a big one mind you, but at the moment they are just too much versatile with their flexible slot layouts, extended drone bays coupled with amazing speed and good damage. Their theoretical weaknesses (lack of EHP, poor damage projection) don't matter as much in the field as they should.


    • So, when would this be coming out? Not for a while, we have a lot of more urgent rebalancing to go through, mainly with Tech1 and 2 hulls, but this definately is on our to-do list.

    Oh god.
    Velicitia
    XS Tech
    #16 - 2013-04-17 16:10:25 UTC
    Tessla Coil wrote:
    Riot Girl wrote:
    Tessla Coil wrote:
    So why have they bypassed pirate frig and cruiser hulls then

    They haven't. Do you read the information on this forum?


    What are you talking about?
    Of all the threads created in the past weeks, zero refer to pirate hulls.


    How can one "bypass" something when they haven't gotten to it yet?

    Retribution will see the last of the T1 subcaps balanced, and NAVY Frigs/Cruisers, and the introduction of navy BC.

    One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
    Jenn aSide
    Soul Machines
    The Initiative.
    #17 - 2013-04-17 16:18:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
    Riot Girl wrote:
    CCP Ytterbium wrote:



  • Angel Cartel: while the Dramiel has been brought back into line, the Cynabal and Machariel need a nerf. Not necessarily a big one mind you, but at the moment they are just too much versatile with their flexible slot layouts, extended drone bays coupled with amazing speed and good damage. Their theoretical weaknesses (lack of EHP, poor damage projection) don't matter as much in the field as they should.



    • I'm going to go ahead and schedule the Machariel Mob shooting of indestructible Jita Structures now . Always better to plan in advance!

    It will be complete with drum circles in space and also spamming Jita local with cries of "Blasphemy for nerfing ye ole holy Mach" and "Burn the CCP Heretics like we did last time") and such festivities.

    So who's with me for Mach-a-palooza 2013??!??
    Tessla Coil
    Pirannha Corp
    #18 - 2013-04-17 16:21:07 UTC
    Riot Girl wrote:
    CCP Ytterbium wrote:

  • Blood Raiders: Bhaalgorn is nice, Ashimmu and Cruor need some iteration. Need to find ways to make them useful at what they do without them competing too much with the Amarr Recon Ships.

  • Sansha's Nation: Nightmare is very good, Phantasm and Succubus also need some love. Probably going to need to have a look at their mobility and EHP. Open to ideas however, so this thread will be watched.

  • Guristas: Rattlesnake and Gila we are happy with, not so much with the Worm.

  • Serpentis: we are quite pleased with all the ships in this line.

  • Angel Cartel: while the Dramiel has been brought back into line, the Cynabal and Machariel need a nerf. Not necessarily a big one mind you, but at the moment they are just too much versatile with their flexible slot layouts, extended drone bays coupled with amazing speed and good damage. Their theoretical weaknesses (lack of EHP, poor damage projection) don't matter as much in the field as they should.


    • So, when would this be coming out? Not for a while, we have a lot of more urgent rebalancing to go through, mainly with Tech1 and 2 hulls, but this definately is on our to-do list.


    So once again, I say do a COMPLETE hull class, before moving onto the next size, instead of jumping sizes.
    Riot Girl
    You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
    #19 - 2013-04-17 16:22:44 UTC
    Why?

    Oh god.
    Ranger 1
    Ranger Corp
    Vae. Victis.
    #20 - 2013-04-17 16:34:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
    Tessla Coil wrote:
    Riot Girl wrote:
    CCP Ytterbium wrote:

  • Blood Raiders: Bhaalgorn is nice, Ashimmu and Cruor need some iteration. Need to find ways to make them useful at what they do without them competing too much with the Amarr Recon Ships.

  • Sansha's Nation: Nightmare is very good, Phantasm and Succubus also need some love. Probably going to need to have a look at their mobility and EHP. Open to ideas however, so this thread will be watched.

  • Guristas: Rattlesnake and Gila we are happy with, not so much with the Worm.

  • Serpentis: we are quite pleased with all the ships in this line.

  • Angel Cartel: while the Dramiel has been brought back into line, the Cynabal and Machariel need a nerf. Not necessarily a big one mind you, but at the moment they are just too much versatile with their flexible slot layouts, extended drone bays coupled with amazing speed and good damage. Their theoretical weaknesses (lack of EHP, poor damage projection) don't matter as much in the field as they should.


    • So, when would this be coming out? Not for a while, we have a lot of more urgent rebalancing to go through, mainly with Tech1 and 2 hulls, but this definately is on our to-do list.


    So once again, I say do a COMPLETE hull class, before moving onto the next size, instead of jumping sizes.

    T1 ships form the base line that all other balancing needs to take into consideration. it also comprises the largest number of ships in game.

    They needed to get a good handle on T1 ships before they could proceed.

    Navy ships are the next half step up, so work started on those as soon as the base T1 hulls for them were sorted out.

    Once those are balanced, flown a bit, then polished we'll see T2 as the next level to be addressed... and those changes will be much better informed due to the practical feed back they will have by that time on the T1 and Navy varients. Obviously the highest branches of this tree will be Pirate and T3, once all the basic stats for the various lines are proven solid.

    You make sure your foundation is solid and will stand the test of time before you start working with the upper levels, otherwise you find yourself needing to make much bigger adjustments to the whole line.

    Common sense combined with design/development principals, what a concept.

    View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
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