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Tech III Modules

Author
Felsusguy
Panopticon Engineering
#1 - 2013-04-15 21:15:21 UTC
Now, I know what you are thinking. "Rebalance current Tech III before adding new stuff". If I were suggesting ships, that would be a valid argument, but here, I'm suggesting modules. They are not for surpassing current Tech II modules: they are simply intended to be more versatile.

What Modules for Tech III?
Only the more general items would be turned into Tech III. Items that do not have a general variant that are fairly essential, such as armor hardeners (not including reactive armor hardeners, because that isn't quite generalized), will be grouped into a single item.

Module Subsystems
Tech III modules can fit three subsystems each: two general subsystems and one thermal subsystem.

General Subsystems determine the basic role of the weapon. Only one General Subsystem can be active at one time, but you can freely switch between General Subsystems in space by right-clicking the module and clicking the "reconfigure subsystems" option. This takes around 60 seconds for most ships, but Tech III ships can reconfigure subsystems much faster at around 10 seconds. General Subsystems are fairly important in determining the overall performance of the weapon. Some might increase damage but reduce rate of fire, making it an high-alpha weapon, while others might increase optimal range.

Thermal Subsystems vastly affect the performance of the weapon. They, however, only become active while overheating. Railguns might have a thermal subsystem that greatly increases tracking speed while overheating, whereas Blasters might have a thermal subsystem that greatly increases optimal range while overheating. Lasers might have a thermal subsystem that completely removes capacitor usage, increasing the ship's resistance to capacitor neutralization, and Artillery might have a thermal subsystem that increases rate of fire immensely but produces a massive amount of heat, forcing it only to be used in short bursts. Tech III modules produce less heat when attached to Tech III ships.

Tech III modules allow a crafty pilot to outwit and outmaneuver opponents that don't anticipate it. For example, a sniper fit could be fitted in such a way that it could quickly be converted into a close-range brawler, or vice versa. Fragile speedsters could buckle down to pummel ships that try to pursue it. Burst tankers could reassemble as slow-n'-steady tankers. High-powered, short-range Stasis Webifiers could be turned into low-powered, long-range Stasis Webifiers. Isn't that what what Tech III should be, versatile? That is what all of you have been calling out for, am I correct?

The Caldari put business before pleasure. The Gallente put business in pleasure.

Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
#2 - 2013-04-15 21:36:04 UTC
hmmm, and these should only be useable on T2 or better ships, and each time you lose a ship with one of these, you lose a level of the skill needed to use it, which will have as prereqs all sorts of lvl V skills

my main problem with these is that they will enable a ship to refit in deep space, and I'm not sure that's good thing... it means these become a "win button" because you can see what your opponent's doing, and change over to counter it..... meaning all small-gang PVP-ers would need to invest in these new modules

which would have to be made from nano-ribbons, because otherwise they'd either interfere with ribbons, making them lose market value, or would be cheap as hell, as everybody gets rid of excess sleeper parts....

the above would all raise the barrier to PVP for the new player - and therefore no.....

For posting an idea into F&I: come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it..... If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.

Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2013-04-15 21:40:30 UTC
The balancing Issue that CCP is facing is that Versatile is not supposed to be better then specialized.

This is something that they must be careful about
Felsusguy
Panopticon Engineering
#4 - 2013-04-15 21:50:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Felsusguy
Xe'Cara'eos wrote:
hmmm, and these should only be useable on T2 or better ships, and each time you lose a ship with one of these, you lose a level of the skill needed to use it, which will have as prereqs all sorts of lvl V skills

Why? That system is flawed, anyway.

Xe'Cara'eos wrote:
my main problem with these is that they will enable a ship to refit in deep space, and I'm not sure that's good thing... it means these become a "win button" because you can see what your opponent's doing, and change over to counter it..... meaning all small-gang PVP-ers would need to invest in these new modules

Not necessarily. It isn't like they can't do that anyway, it just takes a little more time, and there is only so much versatility you can fit into one module.

Xe'Cara'eos wrote:
which would have to be made from nano-ribbons, because otherwise they'd either interfere with ribbons, making them lose market value, or would be cheap as hell, as everybody gets rid of excess sleeper parts....

I'm not sure what you are saying. Not all Tech I modules use Pyerite or Zydrine, or even Tritanium, yet we don't see any problems there.

Xe'Cara'eos wrote:
the above would all raise the barrier to PVP for the new player - and therefore no.....

Why do you say that? What makes Tech 3 modules so special that they raise the barrier of entry into PVP? We have Tech 2 Ships, Pirate-Faction Ships and Navy-Faction Ships yet you can still PVP in a Tech 1 Ship. The only advantage these modules have over Tech 2 modules is versatility.

The Caldari put business before pleasure. The Gallente put business in pleasure.

Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5 - 2013-04-15 21:58:59 UTC
Tech 3 modules should be inferior in performance to Tech 2, but much more adaptable through a much wider use of scripts.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#6 - 2013-04-15 22:13:25 UTC
I see this as just adding complexity for complexity's sake. You're basically asking to fit ships with modules that can be configured with sub-modules.
Too much micromanagement... too much room for imbalance and problems to happen.
Felsusguy
Panopticon Engineering
#7 - 2013-04-15 22:13:57 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
Tech 3 modules should be inferior in performance to Tech 2, but much more adaptable through a much wider use of scripts.

That is essentially what I was suggesting, but no, not scripts per se.

The Caldari put business before pleasure. The Gallente put business in pleasure.

Felsusguy
Panopticon Engineering
#8 - 2013-04-15 22:19:00 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
I see this as just adding complexity for complexity's sake.

From what you are saying I am forced to assume you would rather have Tech 3 ships simply be better than Tech 2.

ShahFluffers wrote:
You're basically asking to fit ships with modules that can be configured with sub-modules.

Yes.

ShahFluffers wrote:
Too much micromanagement... too much room for imbalance and problems to happen.

I wouldn't mind the micromanagement, and I'm sure there are others who wouldn't mind as well. As for the imbalance and "problems" you speak of that could occur, I have yet to see any serious balance flaws that might occur. If you could point them out, I would be most appreciative.

The Caldari put business before pleasure. The Gallente put business in pleasure.

Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
#9 - 2013-04-15 22:22:38 UTC
Felsusguy wrote:
Xe'Cara'eos wrote:
hmmm, and these should only be useable on T2 or better ships, and each time you lose a ship with one of these, you lose a level of the skill needed to use it, which will have as prereqs all sorts of lvl V skills

Why? That system is flawed, anyway.

Xe'Cara'eos wrote:
my main problem with these is that they will enable a ship to refit in deep space, and I'm not sure that's good thing... it means these become a "win button" because you can see what your opponent's doing, and change over to counter it..... meaning all small-gang PVP-ers would need to invest in these new modules

Not necessarily. It isn't like they can't do that anyway, it just takes a little more time, and there is only so much versatility you can fit into one module.

Xe'Cara'eos wrote:
which would have to be made from nano-ribbons, because otherwise they'd either interfere with ribbons, making them lose market value, or would be cheap as hell, as everybody gets rid of excess sleeper parts....

I'm not sure what you are saying. Not all Tech I modules use Pyerite or Zydrine, or even Tritanium, yet we don't see any problems there.

Xe'Cara'eos wrote:
the above would all raise the barrier to PVP for the new player - and therefore no.....

Why do you say that? What makes Tech 3 modules so special that they raise the barrier of entry into PVP? We have Tech 2 Ships, Pirate-Faction Ships and Navy-Faction Ships yet you can still PVP in a Tech 1 Ship. The only advantage these modules have over Tech 2 modules is versatility.


to answer the above in order they are raised:
1. I think that for T3 it is perfectly acceptable to have multiple lvl V prereq's, it is a limit of it's branch, and it can do so much, also, I think that the loss of sp makes it more of a choice about T3 vs T2 vs T1, you don't fly a T3 into a situation where you're going to lose it unless you're end game-stage

2. if you can't refit in space (without the aid of carrier/POS) why on earth would you choose T3 over T2? refiting in space is this "win button that has me really worried"

3. they would be need to have little to no impact upon ribbon prices - the damn things are highly (maybe over) -priced anyway, but can't be a way of getting rid of spare sleeper salvage, and I haven't yet found a T2 item that doesn't need morphite
and minerals can be mined in the exact quantity - sleeper salvage is set proportions (at least on the uber scale)

4. but it's not the only disadvantage, they'd need a large (or highly specialized) skillset, probably would cost a lot, most of which are unavaible to new players, unless you want to turn EVE into a pay-to-win game

I await your reply (that said, I for some reason don't like the idea, but that's neither here nor there....)

For posting an idea into F&I: come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it..... If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.

Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#10 - 2013-04-15 22:43:35 UTC
Felsusguy wrote:
Xe'Cara'eos wrote:
the above would all raise the barrier to PVP for the new player - and therefore no.....

Why do you say that? What makes Tech 3 modules so special that they raise the barrier of entry into PVP? We have Tech 2 Ships, Pirate-Faction Ships and Navy-Faction Ships yet you can still PVP in a Tech 1 Ship. The only advantage these modules have over Tech 2 modules is versatility.



well you have non station assisted sub swap out for 1. Part of the pvp aspect of the game is you generally fly out with what you have and make it work. You'd have t3 switching setups on the fly. Dangerous abiltiy for the bitter vets who years in should do all well. Up and comer t3 pilots generally specialize role by role and fly out to do that one thing. Like say web pro loki, then links.

Not to say I am against on the fly changes. I would agree to refits in carriers or orca. this at least introduces the logistical and security aspects of moving them around and keeping them allive. that balls to the walls roam won't be moving so fast waiting for the carrier to recharge cap.. Its then on the FC/fleet to decide if refit is worth the lag time babysitting the carrier to support refits. this I could live with. A link loki going meh, easy pickings and jsut poof becoming a web loki all by itself....no.


And your thermal sub, bitter vets should have thermal 4/5 done and strat crioser 4/5 done. they have thier longer cooking times on mods already. If not and this in place, I know at 3 years in I train whatever as i have no real time schedule anymore (I blow off caps or half ass the train as I don't really want them). thermal and strat cruiser 5 I could throw in jsut because its a day ending in y and not care about some msut have better train geting offset. Lower sp players are still balancing gun, tank, suppor trains. take one uber 5 bitter vet in a t3 cooking mods longer and now for better results....gonna get ugly when they meet someone who can't train these 5's as easily.

Well that and the bitter bets should have the base skills to 5 as well for moar fun and profit. maxed gunnery, now s t3 mod to boost that way higher plus whatever bonuses they hae in place (hardwires, link booster, drug boosters). If they got the paste, we are looking at some op setups here.
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2013-04-16 00:47:57 UTC
Wtb Interdiction Nullifier module.
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#12 - 2013-04-16 11:07:09 UTC
Tech 3 rigs would be a better option ..

the key points for them would be


  • can only be fitted on T3 hulls
  • removable


make them manufacturable through some iteration of the invention or reverse engineering system
using normal salvage combined with blue-loot

in terms of benefits, place the bonus given at the midpoint between regular T1 and T2 rigs

the main benefit this would give is making T3 hulls match their intended versatility more closely
a cov-ops/scanning setup, need no longer conflict with a purely pvp or pve setup from rig choices
PavlikX
Scan Stakan
HOLD MY PROBS
#13 - 2013-04-16 15:37:24 UTC
Cool idea anout T3 rigs btw +1.
Meantime other modules (except that rigs) - no way. CCP still can not handle with T2 and meta versions of new modules (AAR, ASB, RAH, MJD), and gave no place to big amount of useless modules, like armor platings.
Felsusguy
Panopticon Engineering
#14 - 2013-04-16 19:18:08 UTC
Kitty Bear wrote:
Tech 3 rigs would be a better option .. -snip-

Why do you put your suggestions here? Why not make your own thread?

The Caldari put business before pleasure. The Gallente put business in pleasure.

El Geo
Warcrows
#15 - 2013-04-16 19:57:05 UTC  |  Edited by: El Geo
I like the idea and can see where you are coming from, its easy to consider that say a webbing module for instance could be configured for range or velocity bonus giving less than specialized ships but more than non specialized. There is always the issue of balance, the same can be said for the ideas like tech 2 capitals or tech 3 battleships and frigates.

In one hand I can see how I would like to be able to use scripts and in the other I can see how this might be a bad thing but I am open minded and can see how this could be balanced via long reload times, another idea for tech 3 modules could be as simple as heat sinks for overloading longer, I can also see these being tech 3 ships only I'm afraid.
Ager Agemo
Rainbow Ponies Incorporated
#16 - 2013-04-16 19:58:22 UTC
Xe'Cara'eos wrote:
hmmm, and these should only be useable on T2 or better ships, and each time you lose a ship with one of these, you lose a level of the skill needed to use it, which will have as prereqs all sorts of lvl V skills

my main problem with these is that they will enable a ship to refit in deep space, and I'm not sure that's good thing... it means these become a "win button" because you can see what your opponent's doing, and change over to counter it..... meaning all small-gang PVP-ers would need to invest in these new modules

which would have to be made from nano-ribbons, because otherwise they'd either interfere with ribbons, making them lose market value, or would be cheap as hell, as everybody gets rid of excess sleeper parts....

the above would all raise the barrier to PVP for the new player - and therefore no.....

OMG its like pvping with a carrier on your side!
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#17 - 2013-04-17 00:51:26 UTC
Felsusguy wrote:
Kitty Bear wrote:
Tech 3 rigs would be a better option .. -snip-

Why do you put your suggestions here? Why not make your own thread?


lol .. I just think of them as modules ...

if you think it's that worthwhile .. go ahead make the post, I wont mind Big smile
Stonecrusher Mortlock
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2013-04-17 04:08:45 UTC
i was thinking tec 3 mods would be just like t2 but have the added ablity of being able to move up a power slot or down a power slot with increased effectiveness or decreased effectiveness based on the slot it was used in.
Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
#19 - 2013-04-17 16:06:15 UTC
Kitty Bear wrote:
Tech 3 rigs would be a better option ..

the key points for them would be


  • can only be fitted on T3 hulls
  • removable


make them manufacturable through some iteration of the invention or reverse engineering system
using normal salvage combined with blue-loot

in terms of benefits, place the bonus given at the midpoint between regular T1 and T2 rigs

the main benefit this would give is making T3 hulls match their intended versatility more closely
a cov-ops/scanning setup, need no longer conflict with a purely pvp or pve setup from rig choices


this has a measure of merit - since T3 hulls are supposed to be changing monsters
except that the main point about rigs is that they're non-removeable....

For posting an idea into F&I: come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it..... If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.

Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
#20 - 2013-04-17 16:06:36 UTC
Stonecrusher Mortlock wrote:
i was thinking tec 3 mods would be just like t2 but have the added ablity of being able to move up a power slot or down a power slot with increased effectiveness or decreased effectiveness based on the slot it was used in.

this has merit.....

For posting an idea into F&I: come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it..... If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.

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