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War Mechanics solution against griefers: Fleet member restrictions
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Limm Eisenfaust
Heisenberg Productions
#1 - 2013-04-14 17:49:19 UTC
Hello,

I was wondering what other people think about this possibillity to get rid of War-griefers in eve:

War parties are not allowed to form fleets with neutrals, but only with corp/alliance or allied members.
If neutrals want to help and fight... they can join the war as an ally.

Regards, Limm.
Sipphakta en Gravonere
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2013-04-14 18:31:21 UTC
Limm Eisenfaust wrote:
Hello,
I was wondering what other people think about this possibillity to get rid of War-griefers in eve:

War parties are not allowed to form fleets with neutrals, but only with corp/alliance or allied members.
If neutrals want to help and fight... they can join the war as an ally.


What problem are you trying to solve with that? Why do you want to grief people who want to take part in group PvE during wartime?
Limm Eisenfaust
Heisenberg Productions
#3 - 2013-04-14 18:34:28 UTC
the problem is :

War is an official thing! Thus it has to be done officially and by having neutral alts creeping behind a bait and then getting into the fight does not make it more transparent. If those neutrals wanna join the war ... why not by joining it officially? well we all know the answer...
Sipphakta en Gravonere
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2013-04-14 18:38:49 UTC
Limm Eisenfaust wrote:
the problem is :

War is an official thing! Thus it has to be done officially and by having neutral alts creeping behind a bait and then getting into the fight does not make it more transparent. If those neutrals wanna join the war ... why not by joining it officially? well we all know the answer...


Neutrals that help either side during wartime already go suspect, they can be shot by anyone. You are hurting warpartys ability to enjoy group content with neutrals (like Incursions, mining operations etc) while not providing any benefit at all.
Limm Eisenfaust
Heisenberg Productions
#5 - 2013-04-14 18:39:41 UTC
Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:
Limm Eisenfaust wrote:
Hello,
I was wondering what other people think about this possibillity to get rid of War-griefers in eve:

War parties are not allowed to form fleets with neutrals, but only with corp/alliance or allied members.
If neutrals want to help and fight... they can join the war as an ally.


What problem are you trying to solve with that? Why do you want to grief people who want to take part in group PvE during wartime?


And nobody would prohibit anybody from doing group PvE. Just restricted on the corp alliance etc. and tbh those are the people that are playing together most of the online-time. If you are reffering to incusions, i don´t know any pro or semi pro incursiongroup that accepts people that ar at war.
Limm Eisenfaust
Heisenberg Productions
#6 - 2013-04-14 18:40:50 UTC
The benefit is obvious: War-griefers won´t be able to grief anymore. It´s simple.
Sipphakta en Gravonere
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2013-04-14 18:43:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Sipphakta en Gravonere
Limm Eisenfaust wrote:
If you are reffering to incusions, i don´t know any pro or semi pro incursiongroup that accepts people that ar at war.


Some groups accept anyone, they just won't provide reps if you get attacked on site, why do you want to limit the groups people are allowed to play with?

Edit:

Limm Eisenfaust wrote:
The benefit is obvious: War-griefers won´t be able to grief anymore. It´s simple.


What stops them from warping to the same gate/planet/whatever and provide reps outside of fleet? They don't need the broadcast system, they already know who's going to take damage. And they already go suspect and are a valid target for ANYONE. Your proposal will hurt wartargets by removing some options from the game.
Limm Eisenfaust
Heisenberg Productions
#8 - 2013-04-14 18:49:32 UTC
Well what happens if you don´t get reps in an incursion?-> You die. Knowing that will you get into a fleet or try to?->No.

I´ll try to explain it a bit more explicitly:

Many war griefer do this:

They wardec other corps and pretend coming with one ship. So the deced corp attacks it. what happenes next is: Alt- toon of those pretenders in logistics rep him up and he kills them without any problems... Now you could say they earn it because they got so many people but the point is that the war system only makes sense because you know against who you are fighting. wich in this case you do not. Thus the warsystem as ist is now is way too inefficient for anybody but griefers.

Hope that clarified my point.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#9 - 2013-04-14 19:01:14 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
We know what people do. This is not a new "problem."
Your mechanic won't do anything except cause inconvenience to people who run incursions or missions together with people outside of corp.

And high-sec wardeccers will still be able to get around it by not fleeting up their reppers and simply calling out their names in voice chat if and when they need reps.


I suggest you learn how to use the current mechanics to deal with your problems first rather than think up of mechanics that can be easily worked around and/or enforce your version of what's "right" and "fair."
I personally suggest using energy neutralizers and ECM on logi ships... then shooting them.

How did you Veterans start?
Sipphakta en Gravonere
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2013-04-14 19:02:45 UTC
Limm Eisenfaust wrote:
Well what happens if you don´t get reps in an incursion?-> You die. Knowing that will you get into a fleet or try to?->No.


I have personally flown in incursions while under a wardec.

Quote:

They wardec other corps and pretend coming with one ship. So the deced corp attacks it. what happenes next is: Alt- toon of those pretenders in logistics rep him up and he kills them without any problems...


Then the logistics go suspect, means they can be attacked by ANYONE, so it would be very easy to lay a trap for the attacker with some friends waiting.

Under your proposal, what would actually change? The same logistics ship will be able to warp to the same gate/station/belt where the fight is happening and provide logistics without the need of being in fleet. Or the attacker will stay offline, logging in when the target engaged. Your "solution" doesn't help the defender at all but causes warparties to be barred from content.
Limm Eisenfaust
Heisenberg Productions
#11 - 2013-04-14 19:16:27 UTC
Under your proposal, what would actually change? The same logistics ship will be able to warp to the same gate/station/belt where the fight is happening and provide logistics without the need of being in fleet. Or the attacker will stay offline, logging in when the target engaged. Your "solution" doesn't help the defender at all but causes warparties to be barred from content.
[/quote]


That´s right... about that i did not think :-)