These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[Odyssey] Tech 1 Battleships - Gallente

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#1801 - 2013-04-14 02:59:12 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Vladimir Norkoff wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Yup, and the sentry drone returning wil be great for sentry drones of it can be done, but will not be the help the Dominix needs.
Yeah would be great for sentries... but if they did, why would we ever use Heavies?

(And yes, some strange people use Heavy drones. In fact, I use them on a regular basis. Have done so for years. And amazingly they work, and actually blow stuff up. And by "stuff" I mean the ships of other players, both competent and incompetent. Which probably means I'm using them wrong, cuz everyone knows Heavy drones suck.)

Indeed. This is a problem.

Vladimir Norkoff wrote:
As for whether or not "returning sentries" would help the Domi's "needs", I reckon that depends on what you determine those "needs" to be.

The current proposed bonus for the Dominix implies the use of Sentry Drones at range... which appears to be good on paper but falls flat when reality is applied.

What is the reality? Sentry drones are stationary... but sniper fleets must remain mobile to mitigate incoming damage and warp away if something lands on them. That means as soon as you deploy sentry drones you move away from them... and you may not return to the same spot to collect them... which means those drones are as good as lost. And the Dominix only has enough room for 2 sets of "spares."
The alternative to this is that the Dominix simply stand still with its sentries and soak up any damage directed at it... however, in this situation the Armageddon would be a clearly superior choice as it can tank more

How did you Veterans start?
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1802 - 2013-04-14 03:52:22 UTC
Vladimir Norkoff wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Yup, and the sentry drone returning wil be great for sentry drones of it can be done, but will not be the help the Dominix needs.
Yeah would be great for sentries... but if they did, why would we ever use Heavies?

(And yes, some strange people use Heavy drones. In fact, I use them on a regular basis. Have done so for years. And amazingly they work, and actually blow stuff up. And by "stuff" I mean the ships of other players, both competent and incompetent. Which probably means I'm using them wrong, cuz everyone knows Heavy drones suck.)

IMO Heavy drones are good for anything within T2 Web range, and I as well use them for this purpose. With 2 T2 OTLs a Garde II can usually hit around 15k with decent accuracy still, which makes a small window of trouble between +10k and 15K.
Vladimir Norkoff wrote:

As for whether or not "returning sentries" would help the Domi's "needs", I reckon that depends on what you determine those "needs" to be.

The reason they would not help put the Dominix on a competitive level with the Armageddon is they would effect all ships with a bandwidth of (I would say) 75Mbps equally.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Drunken Bum
#1803 - 2013-04-14 04:14:05 UTC
Flyinghotpocket wrote:
CCp should go back to the whole method 'gamers dont know what they want, we will give them ships and they will have to deal'

crying about projectiles having to be fit on dominix now? o yeah like amarr had to do for 6 years?

Yeah that obviously didnt work. Hence why all ships are currently being redesigned.

After the patch we're giving the market some gentle supply restriction, like tying one wrist to the bedpost loosely with soft silk rope. Just enough to make things a bit more exciting for the market, not enough to make a safeword necessary.  -Fozzie
Gabriel Karade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#1804 - 2013-04-14 08:51:19 UTC
Buzzmong wrote:
Hmm.

I wonder if it's time to reconsider the change to the game that resulted in a nearly hard coded limit of 5x active drones.

I think a dedicated drone boat using 10 active drones (restoring the old +1 Active Drone Per Level), could be very interesting as a Gallente racial flavour. Might be best reserved for T2 ships though.

I may miss the days where Drones and Drone Interfacing were 1+ Drone Controlled per level each, resulting nearly every ship fielding 10, and the drone ships that had the +1 Drone controlled per level having 15 on the field at once.

Would make for a very interesting Dominix though, and set it apart from the new 'Geddon. Same applies for Vexor/Arb and Myrm/Proph.
I think, but it's so long ago now that I'm not sure, that the server is mature enough to probably be able to take such a bonus on T2 ships, and I think it would be a perfect way of establishing the true Gallente 'colours' through the CreoDron line.

War Machine: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=386293
Gabriel Karade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#1805 - 2013-04-14 08:53:16 UTC
Askulf Joringer wrote:
Julius Foederatus wrote:
Personally I'm not sold on the speed being all that much of an advantage. The idea of an "attack" battleship just seems already obsolete because of the attack battlecruisers. The speed would have to be much better than it is now to really give it an "attack" profile. I think they should not try and balance the BS based on roles and rather just make sure they make sense as individual ships. Roles are fine and dandy for cruisers and maybe even BCs but for BS you'd have to drastically change the stats for them to make sense in any role beyond heavy tank ewar or heavy combat.


The loss of the Nuet kind of sucks but I don't think it's nearly as significant as people are making it out to be. I'd rather fly the current proposal of the mega over the one that is live atm.
I have to ask this, and it's not to be a 'douche' but, do you fly the Megathron on TQ?

War Machine: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=386293
Carka Gerschen
Ubiquitous Hurt
The WeHurt Initiative
#1806 - 2013-04-14 09:20:44 UTC
Goodmorning,

After reading through the changes to the Gallente battleship line, I really think I must be completely different then most, since I always use the utility high on my megathron for a neut. If you do solo or duo roams in battleships you really need that utility high to deal with frigates and the current megathron is perfect for that role with the standard 2 plates, 2 eanm, 2 magstabs, 1 dc, scam, web, cap injector and mwd. I don't think trading the utility for an extra low is a good idea, in fact I quite hate losing a utility high, since that makes you completely vulnurable against a lot of smaller ships. I can see it working in a bigger fleet, but let's not focus everything on the bigger fleet fights for once.

I don't have much to say about the Hyperion, the changes look good, but I have never flown it.

The dominix on the other hand, I am afraid the only thing we will see is less diversity with the dominix. Remote rep domis and neut domis will be the only thing worth fitting, I am afraid. Or people go with projetile turrets and do we really need another ship without the traditional race's weapons? Eventhough I think the tracking could be nice in bigger fleet where everybody is using sentries, it kinda ruins the domi a bit for solo use.

Just my opinion,

regards,

Carka
Askulf Joringer
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1807 - 2013-04-14 09:40:42 UTC
Gabriel Karade wrote:
Askulf Joringer wrote:
Julius Foederatus wrote:
Personally I'm not sold on the speed being all that much of an advantage. The idea of an "attack" battleship just seems already obsolete because of the attack battlecruisers. The speed would have to be much better than it is now to really give it an "attack" profile. I think they should not try and balance the BS based on roles and rather just make sure they make sense as individual ships. Roles are fine and dandy for cruisers and maybe even BCs but for BS you'd have to drastically change the stats for them to make sense in any role beyond heavy tank ewar or heavy combat.


The loss of the Nuet kind of sucks but I don't think it's nearly as significant as people are making it out to be. I'd rather fly the current proposal of the mega over the one that is live atm.
I have to ask this, and it's not to be a 'douche' but, do you fly the Megathron on TQ?


Yes, I most certainly do. I stand by my point, People are being babies about the change atm.

I don't really understand why you ask the question though... Is it because my opinion of the change differs from yourself? Thus I must be full of it to stand by that opinion? The only change I see at all reasonable to the proposed mega is to maybe increase the drone bandwidth back to 100m3. Other than that, I'd much rather have the current bonus layout, mobility buff and slot layout in exchange for the loss of the utility high.
Laura Belle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1808 - 2013-04-14 10:19:41 UTC
TeeKay Latef wrote:
Quote:
Hyperion[...] Slot layout: 8H, 4M(-1), 7L(+1); 8 turrets , 0 launchers


You forgot -1 launcher!



didn't they say 6 5 7 ?
Jonas Sukarala
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1809 - 2013-04-14 10:25:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonas Sukarala
CCP
Is there any chance of getting that lowslot moved to a mid on the megathron at all i think the option to shield tank nano it is its best option since it has the worst range and tank of all battleships?... oo and all attack bs need much more mobility?

Also a lot more EHP is needed surely the double HP each class of ship should be followed here....

'Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line' CCP Ytterbium Nerf missile range into place where is the TD missile change?  ..projectiles should use capacitor. ABC's should be T2 HABC and nerf web strength its still too high

Gabriel Karade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#1810 - 2013-04-14 10:57:00 UTC
Askulf Joringer wrote:
Gabriel Karade wrote:
Askulf Joringer wrote:
Julius Foederatus wrote:
Personally I'm not sold on the speed being all that much of an advantage. The idea of an "attack" battleship just seems already obsolete because of the attack battlecruisers. The speed would have to be much better than it is now to really give it an "attack" profile. I think they should not try and balance the BS based on roles and rather just make sure they make sense as individual ships. Roles are fine and dandy for cruisers and maybe even BCs but for BS you'd have to drastically change the stats for them to make sense in any role beyond heavy tank ewar or heavy combat.


The loss of the Nuet kind of sucks but I don't think it's nearly as significant as people are making it out to be. I'd rather fly the current proposal of the mega over the one that is live atm.
I have to ask this, and it's not to be a 'douche' but, do you fly the Megathron on TQ?


Yes, I most certainly do. I stand by my point, People are being babies about the change atm.

I don't really understand why you ask the question though... Is it because my opinion of the change differs from yourself? Thus I must be full of it to stand by that opinion? The only change I see at all reasonable to the proposed mega is to maybe increase the drone bandwidth back to 100m3. Other than that, I'd much rather have the current bonus layout, mobility buff and slot layout in exchange for the loss of the utility high.


Because calling people 'babies', who more than likely have more experience in their little finger, of flying Megathrons than yourself, is not constructive.

Loss of the utility high is very significant for a lot of the blaster fits.

Now having said that, nothing is going to stop me flying the ship that's been my 'darling' these past 9 years, I've already got modified fits in mind.

War Machine: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=386293
Askulf Joringer
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1811 - 2013-04-14 12:37:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Askulf Joringer
Gabriel Karade wrote:


Because calling people 'babies', who more than likely have more experience in their little finger, of flying Megathrons than yourself, is not constructive.

Loss of the utility high is very significant for a lot of the blaster fits.

Now having said that, nothing is going to stop me flying the ship that's been my 'darling' these past 9 years, I've already got modified fits in mind.



Well allot of the people are being babies, if you want to take that as a slight against you then go for it. You're comments show that you've somehow taken my comments personally, thus you're also being a baby.

As for the loss of the utility high... This is significant however the ship changes easily make up for it. More turret dps is a big advantage, less drone dps is a disadvantage however nothing really that significant. Heavies have a long travel time and even with similar levels of dps between the post and pre change mega, the post change will be doing far more dmg in an actual fight. If you have trouble understanding this then I cannot help you. Increased speed, while not significant IS an advantage as well which will allow for more dps to be applied during almost any kind of engagement other than maybe fighting at undock.

As for my experience with a mega... I've been playing since closed beta brah Blink
Gabriel Karade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#1812 - 2013-04-14 13:04:37 UTC
Not taken personally, the original reply you quoted was my explaining where the DPS changes. As I said, for Rail boats, a boost, for blaster boats, not that straightforward with the changes. As I said further to that, for me personally won't change my flying Megathrons the way they should be, blaster fit.

Take this personally if you wish, but I'm pointing out that you come across as an unconstructive scrub.

And, suurrre you're a beta player - if you were, you'd have no need to hide behind an alt in a constructive balancing thread P

War Machine: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=386293
Pattern Clarc
Citeregis
#1813 - 2013-04-14 13:20:05 UTC
I don't understand why any Megathron Blaster pilot wouldn't instantly switch to the Hyperion now. Clinging to it, and then complaining that it doesn't do exactly what you wanted it to do or what you now is silly.

Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado. Gallente - Pilot satisfaction
smoking gun81
Doomheim
#1814 - 2013-04-14 13:45:36 UTC
Laura Belle wrote:
TeeKay Latef wrote:
Quote:
Hyperion[...] Slot layout: 8H, 4M(-1), 7L(+1); 8 turrets , 0 launchers


You forgot -1 launcher!



didn't they say 6 5 7 ?



Slot layout: 7H(-1), 5M, 7L(+1); 6 turrets , 1 launchers


Prehaps both of you should read the OP again to straighten things out regarding slot layouts.

Jonas Sukarala wrote:
CCP
Is there any chance of getting that lowslot moved to a mid on the megathron at all i think the option to shield tank nano it is its best option since it has the worst range and tank of all battleships?... oo and all attack bs need much more mobility?

Also a lot more EHP is needed surely the double HP each class of ship should be followed here....


Gallente = armor get over it you want a shield based blaster boat go rokh...


Gallente need an 8 weapon BS platform just like all the others ( Maelstrom, Typhoon, Abaddon, Apocalypse, Rokh, post patch ).
Can the Gallente only count to 7 when it comes to BS weapons ??
Now the hype has gone from 8 to 6 weapons the Gallente are the only race without an 8 racial weapon slot boat and with CCP wanting to focus the mega to being a " dedicated gun boat " an 8th turret slot does that keep the 8 high slots just go +1 turret -1 launcher staying with the TQ slot layout of 8-4-7.
Jonas Sukarala
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1815 - 2013-04-14 13:55:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonas Sukarala
Yes because rokhs are so mobile and do tons of dps :P

'Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line' CCP Ytterbium Nerf missile range into place where is the TD missile change?  ..projectiles should use capacitor. ABC's should be T2 HABC and nerf web strength its still too high

Phoenix Torp
Almost Absolute
#1816 - 2013-04-14 14:12:27 UTC
smoking gun81 wrote:

Gallente need an 8 weapon BS platform just like all the others ( Maelstrom, Typhoon, Abaddon, Apocalypse, Rokh, post patch ).


I think that's the point. Even having the most powerful raw-DPS weapon, he needs to have 8 slots. And then, if some people (as this thread has stated) want to use one of the high-slots as utility slot, they are free to do it. We need at least 1 ship with 8 high slots. The problem of the blasters (and Gallente is blaster, more than railgun, platform) is that they have the worst close range. So with the 8 slots they can compete with the rest of the BS's. The main problem of the Gallente boats will be to put modules in the mids-lows to effectively apply this uber damage, but the fact to be a powerful gun system it's not a reason to drop 1 high-slot.

http://eveboard.com/pilot/Phoenix_Torp
smoking gun81
Doomheim
#1817 - 2013-04-14 14:14:45 UTC
Jonas Sukarala wrote:
Yes because rokhs are so mobile and do tons of dps :P



Go poast to the caldari thread about how un happy you are with it instead of trying to give evey gallente BS hull 5 mids.

As stated gallente = armor so if you want to try to shiled tank a gallente ship you should do so within the restrictions of the hulls.
Phoenix Torp
Almost Absolute
#1818 - 2013-04-14 14:19:46 UTC
smoking gun81 wrote:
Jonas Sukarala wrote:
Yes because rokhs are so mobile and do tons of dps :P



Go poast to the caldari thread about how un happy you are with it instead of trying to give evey gallente BS hull 5 mids.

As stated gallente = armor so if you want to try to shiled tank a gallente ship you should do so within the restrictions of the hulls.


The problem of Gallente is, to be precise, this: they are blaster boats, dependent of the range more than other platforms, and they are armor boats. And with armor boats the best fits (for EHP purposes) are those that slow down the speed (you know, Pumps, 1600mm's and stuff like that). My fitting some pages ago, that don't slow down the speed for this attack Mega, only have <75K EHP, kind of ridiculous. In addition, they were not the fastest ships. I think they have done a great advance rising up the velocity of the Gallente boats, but Dominix. Maybe the Hyperion is still slow being a blaster boat. But Dominix is the rare ship in this situation.

http://eveboard.com/pilot/Phoenix_Torp
smoking gun81
Doomheim
#1819 - 2013-04-14 14:27:08 UTC
Phoenix Torp wrote:
smoking gun81 wrote:
Jonas Sukarala wrote:
Yes because rokhs are so mobile and do tons of dps :P



Go poast to the caldari thread about how un happy you are with it instead of trying to give evey gallente BS hull 5 mids.

As stated gallente = armor so if you want to try to shiled tank a gallente ship you should do so within the restrictions of the hulls.


The problem of Gallente is, to be precise, this: they are blaster boats, dependent of the range more than other platforms, and they are armor boats. And with armor boats the best fits (for EHP purposes) are those that slow down the speed (you know, Pumps, 1600mm's and stuff like that). My fitting some pages ago, that don't slow down the speed for this attack Mega, only have <75K EHP, kind of ridiculous. In addition, they were not the fastest ships. I think they have done a great advance rising up the velocity of the Gallente boats, but Dominix. Maybe the Hyperion is still slow being a blaster boat. But Dominix is the rare ship in this situation.



That is why ( like yourself some pages back ) I suggested ship stats as follows:

smoking gun81 wrote:

+7.5% Large Hybrid Turret tracking speed and Large Hybrid Turret falloff per Level.
+ 7.5% ( +10% would make it fall more inline with the Armageddon E-war bonus that everyone is so concerned about ) bonus to Warp Scrambler and Warp Disruptor range per level.
Phoenix Torp
Almost Absolute
#1820 - 2013-04-14 14:36:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Phoenix Torp
smoking gun81 wrote:
Phoenix Torp wrote:
smoking gun81 wrote:
Jonas Sukarala wrote:
Yes because rokhs are so mobile and do tons of dps :P



Go poast to the caldari thread about how un happy you are with it instead of trying to give evey gallente BS hull 5 mids.

As stated gallente = armor so if you want to try to shiled tank a gallente ship you should do so within the restrictions of the hulls.


The problem of Gallente is, to be precise, this: they are blaster boats, dependent of the range more than other platforms, and they are armor boats. And with armor boats the best fits (for EHP purposes) are those that slow down the speed (you know, Pumps, 1600mm's and stuff like that). My fitting some pages ago, that don't slow down the speed for this attack Mega, only have <75K EHP, kind of ridiculous. In addition, they were not the fastest ships. I think they have done a great advance rising up the velocity of the Gallente boats, but Dominix. Maybe the Hyperion is still slow being a blaster boat. But Dominix is the rare ship in this situation.



That is why ( like yourself some pages back ) I suggested ship stats as follows:

smoking gun81 wrote:

+7.5% Large Hybrid Turret tracking speed and Large Hybrid Turret falloff per Level.
+ 7.5% ( +10% would make it fall more inline with the Armageddon E-war bonus that everyone is so concerned about ) bonus to Warp Scrambler and Warp Disruptor range per level.



The problem of this will be that you will have a cheap (and worse) copy of an old Minmatar BS, with a Neutron Blaster Cannon II at lvl5 with 13,75 km of Falloff. Yes, we now have more speed than Minmatar, but also we have less tank as they don't use cap and can use it all for the XL-SB

http://eveboard.com/pilot/Phoenix_Torp