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CSM: Anyone opposed to the new Armageddon?
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Arronicus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-04-13 06:12:59 UTC
Dear CSM Members;

I have lied. I said that I would not be voting for any of you. It's time to eat my words. Having read through the new battleship 'rebalancing', I couldn't help but feel like I vomited up all sorts of dead creatures in my mouth, upon reading about the change to the icon Armageddon, completely ruining it from a time proven, glorious warhorse of the Amarrian navy, a ship feared, and coveted by many, into a joke, a proven unsuccessful model, based on the dragoon.

As such, to the first candidate who replies to this topic, stating (preferably honestly) that they will speak out AGAINST this change to CCP, and make some effort to get the change undone, regardless of who you are, and your positions on anything else, you will have my four votes.

Thankyou
Arronicus
Ayla Crenshaw
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2013-04-13 08:00:01 UTC
Get over it. New Armageddon is coming, regardless of the whine that arose. It's a part of a greater design strategy and some people are genuinely "excited" to see that change.

CCP seems to crave this "excitement" right now. There's been quite a few voices in the Amarr BS tiericide thread speaking against it, to absolutely no effect, not even the slight admission they'll "look into it". Calling upon CSM won't change anything.
Luke Hammarskjold
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2013-04-13 09:05:09 UTC
I actually think the armageddon will get better because of this, but I admit I never flew one.
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#4 - 2013-04-13 10:15:13 UTC
Arronicus wrote:
Dear CSM Members;

[...] upon reading about the change to the icon Armageddon, completely ruining it from a time proven, glorious warhorse of the Amarrian navy, a ship feared, and coveted by many, into a joke, a proven unsuccessful model, based on the dragoon.



'hey, we lost one of three near-identical ship and all we're given is a hull that I have no use for! '

That aside, +1 for extreme-buffer-curse with bonused gardes.
Arronicus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5 - 2013-04-13 11:00:31 UTC
Lloyd Roses wrote:
Arronicus wrote:
Dear CSM Members;

[...] upon reading about the change to the icon Armageddon, completely ruining it from a time proven, glorious warhorse of the Amarrian navy, a ship feared, and coveted by many, into a joke, a proven unsuccessful model, based on the dragoon.



'hey, we lost one of three near-identical ship and all we're given is a hull that I have no use for! '

That aside, +1 for extreme-buffer-curse with bonused gardes.



We have a heavy brawler, a sniper, and a faster higher damage attack battleship. Instead of further edging them into each of their roles, they choose the uncreative easy-out, of simply removing the best out of all 3 ships. If they absolutely HAD to remove one of the three, which they don't, I'd rather see the apoc go. Given the dissapearance of non-arty sniper battleship fleets years ago, and that the armageddon and abaddon both dramatically outperform it in closer range encounters (<60km), it's a near useless hull. Instead, they are taking the geddon, and changing it into a real neut dominix. Reeks of ship homogenization.
Shadow's Caress
The Grey Eagles
#6 - 2013-04-13 12:05:50 UTC
I'll second this. Any CSM member who promises to try to save the Armageddon has my five votes.

The current Armageddon is by far my favorite ship. There is room for improvement, but it shines in both solo and fleet engagements regardless of the fact that it is a tier 1 gunship. Damage output is great with 7 guns, a ROF bonus, and 5x Ogre IIs. The utility high slot can be used for either a heavy neut or a remote rep. This allows excellent emergence in fitting for an expected situation. Mid slots and fittings are tight, but there is enough to make the ship usable without being overpowering. The rack of eight low slots almost makes up for not having a tanking bonus simply because it allows the pilot to comfortably fit three 1600mm plates. The result is a battleship that has excellent damage output, range, EHP, and flexibility. The best part though is that it does all of this without being overpowered. It does this by requiring you to change the fitting or your tactics based on the engagement. This is the best kind of emergence in my opinion.

Why don't I fly the Abaddon or Apocalypse instead? The Abaddon is indeed impressive, but in my opinion it leans too heavily toward min/maxing DPS and EHP. To this end it sacrifices some flexibility and capacitor stability. I just prefer a slightly 'lighter' brawler than the Abaddon. I would be happy to loose the current Armageddon if the Abaddon were able to become a beefier version of the current Armageddon.

Concerning the Apocalypse, there are better snipers out there. Other popular snipers have better range, better damage, and even some amount of shield tank. Admittedly, beam lasers have great tracking for a sniper, but that is often not much of an issue. For the Apoc to compete in the fleet role, it needs to have some sort of unique edge. If it is to be a sniper, first of all it should have a range bonus that is on par with other sniper ships (10% per level). Second, it should have a damage bonus. Even then, it would not be OP due to its lack of alpha and lack of EHP. It doesn't have to be a dedicated sniper boat though. Perhaps it would work well in a specialized RRBS role. Amarrian gunship doctrine favors armor tanking and flexible optimal ranges over mobility, so it follows that they would be the undisputed masters of RRBS Phalanxes.
Ruze
Next Stage Initiative
#7 - 2013-04-13 12:13:14 UTC
The Armageddon is a classic. The Abaddon is still a relatively new ship in comparison. Make the Abba a drone boat.

That said, even if they won't budge on this, can we keep the Navy Knockoff Armageddon? Some ship that ends up reflecting exactly the same principles of the first? Sure, it may not be used much (part of the Geddon's appeal was frankly it's price range compared to other bs's), but it would be nice to keep this classic machine in the game somewhere.

If you're driven to threaten others with harm or violence because of what they do in game, you can't separate fantasy from reality. That "griefer/thief" is probably more sane than you are. How screwed up is that?