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Intergalactic Summit

 
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KARIN MIDULAR IN COMA; REPUBLIC DEMANDS TRANSFER

Author
Gosakumori Noh
Coven of One
#41 - 2013-04-13 00:19:31 UTC
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:
Hostage or no, Ray of Matar has been shot and might die of it. This is a Sebiestor matter and should be handled by the Sebiestor. Federation's utter lack of co-operation, to the extreme of sending a military fleet to stop Republic forces from crossing the border to handle the matter, is outrageous.

Elsebeth Rhiannon
Sebiestor


"How dare the Federation send ships to protect its own border!" That's a keeper.

Have I mentioned recently that the Sebiestor are a problem? I dare say, a few more came around to recognizing as much from the above-quoted material right there. Why, I couldn't have planned it out better myself if I tried. Hmmm.

"For the Horde," sweet pea! Keep up the good work.
Seriphyn Inhonores
Elusenian Cooperative
#42 - 2013-04-13 00:29:58 UTC
Quote:
“It is appalling that such sensitive details of Chief Midular's condition have been so brazenly shared by her doctors,” the statement read. “A Ray of Matar has been the victim of a serious attack and the Federation is freely discussing her medical status without any respect to patient-doctor confidentiality. The Federation must transfer her to proper Minmatar care immediately, where our doctors can provide her with appropriate treatment in privacy.”


While the Sebiestor Tribe calls it disrespect, the Caille doctors may call it transparency, and even its own form of respect in keeping the billions concerned for her notified.

At least they're not locking her up and saying "Nope, won't tell you what's happening".
Kazzzi
Heathen Legion
Iron Men of the Hood
#43 - 2013-04-13 00:52:56 UTC
Stitcher wrote:
disagreeing with a person's politics is not sufficient reason to wish suffering and death on them, Kazzzi. This kind of vocal hate just makes you look like a psychotic animal.


I don't want her to suffer at all. Just a quick clean death, as soon as possible. As she deserves.

Seems I'm not the only one who still feels this way.
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#44 - 2013-04-13 01:02:12 UTC
The woman is close to death and you're arguing over where she should be treated and by whom. The Minmatar either trust us as allies, in which case they trust us to safeguard the lives of their dignitaries, or they don't - in which case they have little enough reason to make demands of us, nor expect us to deliver on them.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Kyraella Myshtana
Eternal Fortress
#45 - 2013-04-13 01:03:27 UTC
We are aggrieved by this tragedy and I hope for Midular's swift recovery.

I would like to offer the use of one of our Intaki hospital beds. We have several with transcranial neural burning scanners and the capability to transfer consciousness in the event that her body becomes uninhabitable. I can personally attest to their effectiveness.
BloodBird
The Crucible.
#46 - 2013-04-13 01:54:30 UTC
Kyraella Myshtana wrote:
We are aggrieved by this tragedy and I hope for Midular's swift recovery.

I would like to offer the use of one of our Intaki hospital beds. We have several with transcranial neural burning scanners and the capability to transfer consciousness in the event that her body becomes uninhabitable. I can personally attest to their effectiveness.


I am sure the offer and your concern is appreciated, but it has already been confirmed that this is not an option, sadly.

Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#47 - 2013-04-13 05:23:28 UTC
Quote:
The Federation must transfer her to proper Minmatar care immediately, where our doctors can provide her with appropriate treatment in privacy.”


First, Republic medical science > Federation medical science?! Ha! They aren't serious, are they? I wouldn't be surprised if they busted out a jar of leeches. Heck, we Amarrians could learn a thing or two from Federation doctors. They're the best around and I'm not ashamed to say it.

Second, if by "appropriate treatment" they mean a pillow over the head to finish the job then sure.

Makoto Priano wrote:
While I fully trust that Gallente medical personnel are giving Ms. Midular the aid she requires, it would still behoove the Federation to allow a Matari medical team to observe and assist. If they deem that she is in a condition that would allow transport, then the Federation should bow to the Matari doctors' wishes.


You want to bring more assassins in? Why? Wasn't one enough?

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0

Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient
Electus Matari
#48 - 2013-04-13 07:16:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Elsebeth Rhiannon
For the record, I have nothing but respect towards the doctors at Caille who are doing their job and I trust doing it well. That is not the issue.

The issue is who gets to decide that it is theirs to do the job. That should be done by Midular's tribe, and no one else. With the doctors advising.

The fact that this thread debates endlessly whether the Ray should be moved, could be moved, etc etc, is living proof about how much the point is missed by outsiders. It is none of your gods-be-damned business. Even if you knew for a fact that what the tribe intends was dangerous, it would still be none of your business. It is our elders' job to decide, and that of other people with the expertise to advise them.

The longer this matter is kept out of tribal hands, the more we risk a conflict where we really do not need one.
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#49 - 2013-04-13 11:45:54 UTC
And to those doctors, what you want is irrelevant.

In their care is a woman who needs their help, and they have a duty to do the best they can for her well being. They aren't politicians, or experts on tribal knowledge, they're medical physicians and experts and their goal is not to appease your sentimental needs.

They're to keep her alive and to hopefully get her back to good health, put your pointless stubbornness aside and let them do their job. She is not a piece of meat that you possess to have done as you will with, to be argued over or paraded about with some ideal of ownership to her basic medical rights.

Nor do I believe, considering the severity of the injury, do they have time to sit and twiddle thumb while you work out the best course of action for her, when the best course is going to be the one they're already undertaking without the wasted time of such a stupid delay.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.

Gabriel Darkefyre
Gradient
Electus Matari
#50 - 2013-04-13 11:52:36 UTC
Seriphyn Inhonores wrote:
Quote:
“It is appalling that such sensitive details of Chief Midular's condition have been so brazenly shared by her doctors,” the statement read. “A Ray of Matar has been the victim of a serious attack and the Federation is freely discussing her medical status without any respect to patient-doctor confidentiality. The Federation must transfer her to proper Minmatar care immediately, where our doctors can provide her with appropriate treatment in privacy.”


While the Sebiestor Tribe calls it disrespect, the Caille doctors may call it transparency, and even its own form of respect in keeping the billions concerned for her notified.

At least they're not locking her up and saying "Nope, won't tell you what's happening".


To be frank, the Local Doctor's job is to be providing for the care of the wounded of this attack, of which Karin Midular is one of Hundreds. The only people that they should be informing about the status of any of those wounded is the direct Next of Kin via the Minmatar Embassy if necessary.

The fact that the Doctors considered broadcasting all the details to the entire Cluster via the Scope to be an Appropriate Channel of Communication for this is Disgusting. It should have been up to her own family which Details of her treatment they were comfortable with being publicly released.
Ston Momaki
Disciples of Ston
#51 - 2013-04-13 12:08:33 UTC
I am not Matari and so this comment is given only as one from the outside. However, I employ many Vherokior as crew members and even as my crew chief for I have come to appreciate their gifted perceptiveness.

In conversations with Krik, my crew chief, a few things have stood out.

"It is as important where and how we die as where and how we live."

"To save one's life at all costs does not always honor the dignity and value of the person."

I should have been taking notes, because Krik said a lot that made sense outside of the limited capsuleer perspective.

Karin Midular should be returned to her tribe so that whether in life, or just as important in death, she can be appropriately respected, honored, and valued. Let the issue of criminal justice for the accused be debated, but let this woman be home with her people.

The Disciples of Ston bid you peace

Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient
Electus Matari
#52 - 2013-04-13 13:06:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Elsebeth Rhiannon
It is not the doctor's only duty to save lives at any cost; she also has a duty to listen to and respect the wishes of the patient and their kin. If they make decisions that the doctor considers dangerous, she should make sure they understand the consequences - and then let them do it. At nowhere civilized does the doctor make final calls about treatment. They advice; they do not dictate.
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#53 - 2013-04-13 14:26:12 UTC
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:
It is not the doctor's only duty to save lives at any cost; she also has a duty to listen to and respect the wishes of the patient and their kin. If they make decisions that the doctor considers dangerous, she should make sure they understand the consequences - and then let them do it. At nowhere civilized does the doctor make final calls about treatment. They advice; they do not dictate.


At nowhere civilised does a Doctor allow reckless action that endangers the patient either. They have a duty of care, and that involves not exposing her to risk of harm.

Perhaps sooner or later the penny will drop that no matter how much noise you make, this isn't about you, this is about one woman's health and everything else is irrelevant to that priority. What can be more important to her tribe than her well being after all?

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.

Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#54 - 2013-04-13 14:28:16 UTC
Gabriel Darkefyre wrote:
To be frank, the Local Doctor's job is to be providing for the care of the wounded of this attack, of which Karin Midular is one of Hundreds. The only people that they should be informing about the status of any of those wounded is the direct Next of Kin via the Minmatar Embassy if necessary.

The fact that the Doctors considered broadcasting all the details to the entire Cluster via the Scope to be an Appropriate Channel of Communication for this is Disgusting. It should have been up to her own family which Details of her treatment they were comfortable with being publicly released.


On this I agree, public details should not have been released by the medical team, that was a matter for others to determine.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.

Kyraella Myshtana
Eternal Fortress
#55 - 2013-04-13 15:38:37 UTC
BloodBird wrote:
Kyraella Myshtana wrote:
We are aggrieved by this tragedy and I hope for Midular's swift recovery.

I would like to offer the use of one of our Intaki hospital beds. We have several with transcranial neural burning scanners and the capability to transfer consciousness in the event that her body becomes uninhabitable. I can personally attest to their effectiveness.


I am sure the offer and your concern is appreciated, but it has already been confirmed that this is not an option, sadly.


I am afraid that I missed this part of the discussion.

Does she lack clones of the body? I am living proof that close relatives' clones are sometimes suitable- if problematic.

I would suggest the new dropclone technology, as there is no need for compatible DNA, but I do not know if her vessel could survive the implantation process.
Anslo
Scope Works
#56 - 2013-04-13 15:40:38 UTC
Current report says her patterns aren't stable enough for mind transfer. Any transfer would be partial or completely failed and the infomorph's structure might collapse before even making it to the clone body.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Gosakumori Noh
Coven of One
#57 - 2013-04-13 17:07:41 UTC
Gabriel Darkefyre wrote:


The fact that the Doctors considered broadcasting all the details to the entire Cluster via the Scope to be an Appropriate Channel of Communication for this is Disgusting. It should have been up to her own family which Details of her treatment they were comfortable with being publicly released.


It isn't just a question of whether Midular lives or dies, but whether your vile little tribe insists that her death should form the basis of (further) Dangerous Acts to Come.

If there is a threat to the citizens of the Federation, its government not only has a right, but in fact a duty, to keep its citizens informed of that threat. Consequently, although you are clearly not bright enough to recognize it, you little rust elves are the very reason the Gallente *must* release details of your precious leader's condition. "For the Horde," sweeties. Should Midular's status worsen, the citizens of the Federation would be well-advised to begin making preparations.

The Empire might have some pointers on that front, but I digress.

At long last, an event has come along to reveal the true nature of the Sebiestor for all to see. Contrary to the marketing hype, you are not a thoughtful or mystic bunch. We Amarr understand these things. You are conniving and feral, and should be removed from your position in the Republic in favor of the Nefantar - or at least the Krusual - at the earliest opportunity.

Hmmm. Perhaps the death of Midular would present such an opportunity....
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#58 - 2013-04-13 18:27:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Lyn Farel
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:
It is not the doctor's only duty to save lives at any cost; she also has a duty to listen to and respect the wishes of the patient and their kin. If they make decisions that the doctor considers dangerous, she should make sure they understand the consequences - and then let them do it. At nowhere civilized does the doctor make final calls about treatment. They advice; they do not dictate.


The patient is in a coma, thus unable to actually make any wishes.

Her kin, yes, but why should her kin wishes prevail ? They are not her, and they are not medical experts. I am genuinely curious to understand the reasoning behind.
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient
Electus Matari
#59 - 2013-04-13 19:03:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Elsebeth Rhiannon
Is it not the next of kin, relatives, family, or similar, that decides on a person's care if they are unable, even among outsiders, even among the Enemy?

Beyond that, I do not think I can explain kinship to you, Captain Farel. I think I recall trying and not being very successful.
Adreena Madeveda
Sebiestor Tribe
#60 - 2013-04-13 19:39:15 UTC
Gosakumori Noh wrote:

Smeared her hate of everything Sebiestor, again


Dear Gosakumori,
I wish you a long and meaningful life ; I wish you a beautiful daughter, full of spirits and wits. I wish her to meet the space intentionally left blank of her dreams, and I wish you grow fond of the space intentionally left blank she'll chose to share her life with.
I wish her, and even if that part of my wish rests on your shoulder I'm confident you'll do your best to make it happen, I wish her a beautiful wedding, on a glorious, gorgeous bright day. I wish a celebration so filled with happiness the family and guests for those few hours, and many months after, keep confidence that sometimes, life just turns out well and things are just fine.

And of course, I wish you, eyes filled with tears of joy, at the front row, while the Shaman bless their union.

...................\o\ /o/...................