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T2 Modules
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John Ratcliffe
Tradors'R'us
IChooseYou Alliance
#1 - 2013-04-11 17:09:10 UTC  |  Edited by: John Ratcliffe
Having played for almost 2 years now, I can fit pretty much all T2 modules that I may want to use for PVE/PVP. One aspect I really can't get my head around is why some T2 modules suck so much compared to Meta 4. My view is that if you have to train a skill to Lvl 5 to use a module then it should be better than any T1 module in every way.

Perhaps I'm missing something really obvious, but it just seems wrong to me. Can anyone shed some light s'il vous plait?

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
Ginger Barbarella
#2 - 2013-04-11 17:22:08 UTC
I think one reason why people think they "suck" is because of T2 fitting requirements. Sometimes the fit requirements are kinda nuts. There are some modules I just stick with high meta on because I personally think the T2 variants are just a waste to fit, regardless of cost.

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
John Ratcliffe
Tradors'R'us
IChooseYou Alliance
#3 - 2013-04-11 17:24:34 UTC
But that's sort of my point; given how long it takes to train, the fitting requirements should be lower than T1 and the effect better. Otherwise what's the point in using them?

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
Seraph Castillon
Death Metal Frogs
Ribbit.
#4 - 2013-04-11 17:26:11 UTC
-T2 can be manufactured and thus has a reliable supply. The meta 4 market relies on drops.
-Skills affect both the T2 and the meta module so arguably for the meta module to rival the T2 one you also need those skills at V.
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#5 - 2013-04-11 17:33:53 UTC
Many T2 modules were designed as a cheap alternative to Meta 4 at a time when Meta 4 modules were rarer and more expensive.

Oh god.
Ersahi Kir
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2013-04-11 17:38:28 UTC
I thought I heard that rarity was suppose to balance out T2 and meta 4 items, but then they raised the drop rate on meta 4 and it went to hell. It is silly that some meta 4 items are straight up better than the tech 1.
Maxpie
MUSE LLP
#7 - 2013-04-11 17:50:34 UTC
I agree with you, but to be honest, I like the fact that not everything is so completely linear and predictable. I like to find little nuances rather than have everything straight on rock, paper, scissors.

No good deed goes unpunished
Ersahi Kir
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2013-04-11 19:52:57 UTC
Maxpie wrote:
I agree with you, but to be honest, I like the fact that not everything is so completely linear and predictable. I like to find little nuances rather than have everything straight on rock, paper, scissors.


I think in general meta 4 should be easier to fit, but tech II should be better. Problem is that for a few modules the meta 4 has the same bonuses, but they have lower fitting requirements. Examples include shield power relays, capacitor relays, eccm mods, and target painters.

The difference should come into play between faction mods and tech II, not tech II and meta 4.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#9 - 2013-04-11 20:13:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Batelle
the ones that take a long time to train for don't suck compared to the meta 4 versions. The differences between t1, meta-4, t2, faction, and deadspace are not universal. They vary depending on module type, and even by faction type. Learning these variations is part of the learning curve, not an indication of bad or lazy gameplay design. The only things that are out of whack are deadspace shieldboosters.

Sometimes t2 are better than meta 4. Sometimes they are worse. Sometimes there's a tradeoff that isn't clear cut. And sometimes the difference is completely negligible.

Working as intended.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2013-04-11 20:14:19 UTC
Faction guns are worse than t2 for 100x the price. Fix faction/officer guns first.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#11 - 2013-04-11 22:14:16 UTC
Sigh. It's this thread. Again.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#12 - 2013-04-12 07:12:32 UTC
Remove meta drops from hisec.

Fixed

.
Tub Chil
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#13 - 2013-04-12 07:33:55 UTC
John Ratcliffe wrote:
But that's sort of my point; given how long it takes to train, the fitting requirements should be lower than T1 and the effect better. Otherwise what's the point in using them?

In some cases there is no point to use them.
in this case just use T1 high meta, which in some cases is a lot cheaper.
what are you complaining about? it's not like someone is forcing you to fit T2. if it's not worth it, do not use it and don't train skills to use it.

John Ratcliffe
Tradors'R'us
IChooseYou Alliance
#14 - 2013-04-12 12:23:18 UTC
Tub Chil wrote:
In some cases there is no point to use them.
in this case just use T1 high meta, which in some cases is a lot cheaper.
what are you complaining about? it's not like someone is forcing you to fit T2. if it's not worth it, do not use it and don't train skills to use it.



I'm complaining because the current system is illogical. I really can't simplify that any more for you. T2 should be better than any Meta 0-4 module. Simples.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
Tub Chil
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#15 - 2013-04-12 15:12:08 UTC
John Ratcliffe wrote:
Tub Chil wrote:
In some cases there is no point to use them.
in this case just use T1 high meta, which in some cases is a lot cheaper.
what are you complaining about? it's not like someone is forcing you to fit T2. if it's not worth it, do not use it and don't train skills to use it.



I'm complaining because the current system is illogical. I really can't simplify that any more for you. T2 should be better than any Meta 0-4 module. Simples.

It should be better in primary function of this module, not fitting and cap usage stats. higher fitting is there for balance.

I benefit from very rare cases when meta 4 is equal to TII, so don't really see a point to complain about it.
Theris Akkad
The Combined Interests Group
#16 - 2013-04-12 18:43:44 UTC
sabre906 wrote:
Faction guns are worse than t2 for 100x the price. Fix faction/officer guns first.


This, the cost of a navy module is ridiculous compared to their stats, they need have their tag costs lowered or be removed. End of story.
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#17 - 2013-04-12 18:51:34 UTC
Quote:
Having played for almost 2 years now, I can fit pretty much all T2 modules that I may want to use for PVE/PVP. One aspect I really can't get my head around is why some T2 modules suck so much compared to Meta 4. My view is that if you have to train a skill to Lvl 5 to use a module then it should be better than any T1 module in every way.


That's the worst balance model ever. So meta mods would only ever be used by people with low skills. By extension, you now make the skill divide between young and old characters greater.
Hakaimono
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2013-04-12 19:09:26 UTC
For T2 mods, notice that in the stats it says "meta 5"? Whereas faction and deadspace are 6+.