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Functional, interesting, RELEVANT WiS
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Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries
#21 - 2013-04-11 15:04:21 UTC
Astenion wrote:
I think following through with this new dimension of gameplay would create an entirely new world.


It would rather be an entirely new game.

And while I don't have any issues with new games the problem is that CCP already have resource issues maintaining and expanding EvE, Dust and developing that undead project in Atlanta.

CCP Greyscale: As to starbases, we agree it's pretty terrible, but we don't want to delay the entire release just for this one factor.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2013-04-11 16:20:17 UTC
Lors Dornick wrote:
And while I don't have any issues with new games the problem is that CCP already have resource issues maintaining and expanding EvE, Dust and developing that undead project in Atlanta.
... undead ...
That's a funny wordplay. ^_^
Cazador 64
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#23 - 2013-04-11 17:52:07 UTC
They could simply start by allowing 3-5 other people visit your CQ. Even if it has no use, to start but I would like to see wis happen.
Lipbite
Express Hauler
#24 - 2013-04-11 18:14:50 UTC
Here, have a "like". Just like every other thread about WiS.

Meanwhile I'm waiting for WiS in StarCitizen (and that's the only attractive feature there).
Galan Amarias
Kantian Principle
#25 - 2013-04-11 18:19:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Galan Amarias
I would very much like to get out of my cabin and go see the station. However I have held on for so long waiting that I've pretty much lost hope. The task is massive, to do it right it would take player input. For the love of eve crowd source the wis. Then all they need is an editing tool and some people to vet the new content.

If city of could offer player created. Content there is no good reason ccp can't.
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#26 - 2013-04-11 18:48:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Scatim Helicon
Galan Amarias wrote:
For the love of eve crowd source the wis. Then all they need is an editing tool and some people to vet the new content.


Time To Penis : 0.00001 seconds.

'people to vet the new content' doesn't really work when there's many more people dedicated to making things than to approving them. Look at the delays just to get alliance logos seeded.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2013-04-11 19:15:09 UTC
It this a legitimate, well thought out, and reasonable suggestion General Discussion? Are my eyes deceiving me?

Sarcasm aside, this is a great idea. I feel that WiS can become a significant part of the game if properly executed.

However, I feel that there is still significant work to be done with the Spaceships part of EVE and after that, further integration with DUST 514.

Once that is done, CCP can focus it's attention on WiS again.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!
Ghazu
#28 - 2013-04-12 14:30:01 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Astenion wrote:
CCP, while I commend you for your shelving of WiS (walking in stations) and instead of going forward with it, choosing instead to fix Eve Online and the many problems it had, I hope you haven't thrown it away completely. Eve needed your about-face and your change of focus because, let's be honest, you were heading down the wrong path at the time. Eve was falling apart and you wanted to play house in space. I commend and praise you for the swallowing of your pride and the fact that you listened to your players and got back on track. You can see the results: 500k subs. Well done.

That said, I hope you haven't completely forgotten about WiS, and I think there is still a strong need for it in the game. The WiS I'm talking about isn't the RPing, look-how-cool-my-character-looks, let's-play-a-game-of-Pazaak walking in stations, although that would definitely be a part of it (I used Pazaak just as a reference to KOTOR). I'm talking about real, functional, INTERESTING walking in stations and I think incorporating it would be a boon to the game. First, hear me out.

Of course there would be the "lobby", similar to Dust's lobby, but on a much grander scale with player-owned bars and shops, but that's just the tip of the iceberg. Incorporate WiS with missions, make entire missions instanced INSIDE the stations, complete with cutscenes and choices, similar to SWTOR (only don't screw it up like they did). All those trailers you released have to be for something, not just eye candy. Mission Arcs would be a perfect way to incorporate this into the story. You land in the station, make your way through the public area with all the other players and then move into the instanced part of it where it's just you and the NPCs. You get to your objective which could be anything from smuggling to assassination to simple delivery, with different ways to go about completing the mission. There could be traps laid for you, and you have to make it out of the station alive, for example. There could be different styles of gameplay, depending on the mission. It could be real-time movement or it could be completely choice-based with cutscenes to depict the outcome. There are many, many different ways of accomplishing this feat, and it would definitely be a feat.

While I wholeheartedly believe that Eve should be about ships that go pew, I think following through with this new dimension of gameplay would create an entirely new world. Let's be honest: missions are only there for brand new players to cut their teeth on the game and make enough money to go out on their own after the first couple of months, for bored players who want to kill time, and for people who need to get their sec status and/or faction rep up. Missions are one big grind and are simply a means to an end rather than being a legitimate form of gameplay. People only mission for money so they can go on to do better things later, and there are only so many missions you can do before casting them aside after you've memorized every single thing in every single mission.

I prefer PvP to PvE, but that doesn't mean that PvE has to be dull. Incorporating a truly functional, interesting, and relevant style of gameplay such as WiS I think could really improve upon the mission model. That said, don't neglect the most important thing about Eve: pew. However, I think we're at a good, healthy point now with all the balancing and inclusion of Dust that has happened in the last year or so. The game is much better than it when you released the awful Captain's Quarters expansion. I just don't want you to think those ideas that you had for WiS were somehow bad, because if done right, they could really be an amazing part of Eve instead of just grinding missions and sites.


I beg to disagree, rather than theme park rides, what we need are the tools to build those rides ourselves -or whatver else we want. "Go there, do that, get this" already is present in EVE (mission agents) and doing the same on foot would be a waste of time and assets.

EVE Chronicles are full with all kind of stuff going on behind the scene. Being able to create that stuff by interacting with NPCs and players would be a wiser move. Rather than say "huh, someone stole a Ishukone Scorpion, big prize for the guy who reads first and finds it", why not spawn the NPC who knows the NPC who can blackmail the NPC who can steal the ship? Why not set up a "public" mission so capsuleers blow the defending Ishukone fleet? And then set up a contract to find the stolen ship? While other player sets up to have the thief killed and yet another plots to save the thief?

Why not let the players be "game masters" and "players" as in board RPGs, using NPCs and AI rules to generate content both for avatars and ships? Why not EFFING DARE rather than keep grinding the same old stuff?

It makes me ill. Such a big universe and it all is wasted shooting red crosses...

wow guild wars 2 didn't last very long.

http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2013-04-12 14:31:42 UTC
WiS needs to be available if for no other reason then allowing us to track down Jita local spammers and scammers to dish out some justice.

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~
LOL56
STK Scientific
The Initiative.
#30 - 2013-04-12 14:40:08 UTC
That gameplay prototype of stealing artifacts from crumbling sleeper stations looked 1000x better than missions and bars with no drinks.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#31 - 2013-04-12 21:10:25 UTC
Ghazu wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Astenion wrote:
CCP, while I commend you for your shelving of WiS (walking in stations) and instead of going forward with it, choosing instead to fix Eve Online and the many problems it had, I hope you haven't thrown it away completely. Eve needed your about-face and your change of focus because, let's be honest, you were heading down the wrong path at the time. Eve was falling apart and you wanted to play house in space. I commend and praise you for the swallowing of your pride and the fact that you listened to your players and got back on track. You can see the results: 500k subs. Well done.

That said, I hope you haven't completely forgotten about WiS, and I think there is still a strong need for it in the game. The WiS I'm talking about isn't the RPing, look-how-cool-my-character-looks, let's-play-a-game-of-Pazaak walking in stations, although that would definitely be a part of it (I used Pazaak just as a reference to KOTOR). I'm talking about real, functional, INTERESTING walking in stations and I think incorporating it would be a boon to the game. First, hear me out.

Of course there would be the "lobby", similar to Dust's lobby, but on a much grander scale with player-owned bars and shops, but that's just the tip of the iceberg. Incorporate WiS with missions, make entire missions instanced INSIDE the stations, complete with cutscenes and choices, similar to SWTOR (only don't screw it up like they did). All those trailers you released have to be for something, not just eye candy. Mission Arcs would be a perfect way to incorporate this into the story. You land in the station, make your way through the public area with all the other players and then move into the instanced part of it where it's just you and the NPCs. You get to your objective which could be anything from smuggling to assassination to simple delivery, with different ways to go about completing the mission. There could be traps laid for you, and you have to make it out of the station alive, for example. There could be different styles of gameplay, depending on the mission. It could be real-time movement or it could be completely choice-based with cutscenes to depict the outcome. There are many, many different ways of accomplishing this feat, and it would definitely be a feat.

While I wholeheartedly believe that Eve should be about ships that go pew, I think following through with this new dimension of gameplay would create an entirely new world. Let's be honest: missions are only there for brand new players to cut their teeth on the game and make enough money to go out on their own after the first couple of months, for bored players who want to kill time, and for people who need to get their sec status and/or faction rep up. Missions are one big grind and are simply a means to an end rather than being a legitimate form of gameplay. People only mission for money so they can go on to do better things later, and there are only so many missions you can do before casting them aside after you've memorized every single thing in every single mission.

I prefer PvP to PvE, but that doesn't mean that PvE has to be dull. Incorporating a truly functional, interesting, and relevant style of gameplay such as WiS I think could really improve upon the mission model. That said, don't neglect the most important thing about Eve: pew. However, I think we're at a good, healthy point now with all the balancing and inclusion of Dust that has happened in the last year or so. The game is much better than it when you released the awful Captain's Quarters expansion. I just don't want you to think those ideas that you had for WiS were somehow bad, because if done right, they could really be an amazing part of Eve instead of just grinding missions and sites.


I beg to disagree, rather than theme park rides, what we need are the tools to build those rides ourselves -or whatver else we want. "Go there, do that, get this" already is present in EVE (mission agents) and doing the same on foot would be a waste of time and assets.

EVE Chronicles are full with all kind of stuff going on behind the scene. Being able to create that stuff by interacting with NPCs and players would be a wiser move. Rather than say "huh, someone stole a Ishukone Scorpion, big prize for the guy who reads first and finds it", why not spawn the NPC who knows the NPC who can blackmail the NPC who can steal the ship? Why not set up a "public" mission so capsuleers blow the defending Ishukone fleet? And then set up a contract to find the stolen ship? While other player sets up to have the thief killed and yet another plots to save the thief?

Why not let the players be "game masters" and "players" as in board RPGs, using NPCs and AI rules to generate content both for avatars and ships? Why not EFFING DARE rather than keep grinding the same old stuff?

It makes me ill. Such a big universe and it all is wasted shooting red crosses...

wow guild wars 2 didn't last very long.


Well, it lasted some 3 months and i will go back someday. Planetside 2 lasted 10 weeks and i will go back someday. I won't bore you with the details of what makes a game last for me, but as i've stated many times, "theme park" games never last long with me, no matter how good they are.
Stonecrusher Mortlock
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2013-04-12 21:15:13 UTC
John Ratcliffe wrote:
Astenion wrote:
Maybe so, but I just wanted to see how the community would react to it. Obviously you're the spokesman for the entire Eve playerbase, but I'd like to put that to the test. Roll

Had you read it, you would've seen that it was more of an idea of how to do it rather than begging for them to bring it back.


You do me a disservice. I did read it. All of it. Personally, I like the idea of WIS, but to do it justice would require a massive investment of time, energy and cash - I just don't see it ever happening. Particularly because, from my experience of this forum at least, there isn't much enthusiasm for it.

I'm just trying to be realistic; think about what would be required to implement WIS in a truly immersive, functional and beneficial way and you'll realise that it's just too big of an ask - it would almost require the creation of another game in itself.




kinda like there doing with DUST?
Baggo Hammers
#33 - 2013-04-12 21:17:50 UTC
Stegas Tyrano wrote:
They have functionaing prototypes of playable WiS content but I don't see it being worked on for at least 3 years, at which point, people who play EVE for their sci-fi fix will move over to Star Citizen.



Good.

If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there.
Jill Xelitras
Xeltec services
#34 - 2013-04-14 00:26:48 UTC
Lipbite wrote:
Here, have a "like". Just like every other thread about WiS.


Meheehee ... that's more or less what I do: tossing likes to good posts (even those not about WiS). Big smile

Don't anger the forum gods.

ISD Buldath:

> I Saw, I came, I Frowned, I locked, I posted, and I left.
Ai Shun
#35 - 2013-04-14 00:46:33 UTC
Astenion wrote:
Had you read it, you would've seen that it was more of an idea of how to do it rather than begging for them to bring it back.


Those belong in Features and Ideas; like this one.
Nico elScorpio
Care Bear Hi Sec Industries
#36 - 2013-04-14 00:52:02 UTC
Jill Xelitras wrote:
Lipbite wrote:
Here, have a "like". Just like every other thread about WiS.


Meheehee ... that's more or less what I do: tossing likes to good posts (even those not about WiS). Big smile



Trying hard not to be too negative, but why is the OP a good post please?

What is described there is simply another game. Everything what is proposed needs maaaasssive efforts for conception alone to make it a pleasant gaming experience. Other studios invest years for that with their whole crew. Dude, again thats not EVE, thats mixing something completely different in there. Why should CCP do that? Oh wait, even questioning this is completely irrelevant. This new form of gameplay would be a competition to the rest of eve and what is eve about, flying around in space. When it would be 100% the quality of the original eve gaming experience. When it would be less (what's more than obvious) people just don't go there.

The argument that sooner or later CCP gotta come up with something really revolutionary to remain competitive with their game is true, thinking this should be integrating another completely new game is just unrealistic waste of time thinking and writing about it.

Can you please just bury all this WiS thing and wish and beg for the revolutionaries to come in the actual game, in space, in spaceships. not in stations. if you want this play to average MMO of your choice please and leave us alone.

/rude /wave
Ai Shun
#37 - 2013-04-14 01:12:02 UTC
Nico elScorpio wrote:
What is described there is simply another game. Everything what is proposed needs maaaasssive efforts for conception alone to make it a pleasant gaming experience. Other studios invest years for that with their whole crew. Dude, again thats not EVE, thats mixing something completely different in there. Why should CCP do that? Oh wait, even questioning this is completely irrelevant. This new form of gameplay would be a competition to the rest of eve and what is eve about, flying around in space. When it would be 100% the quality of the original eve gaming experience. When it would be less (what's more than obvious) people just don't go there.


Very good points, good sir. Very good.

WiS adds a futher facet to the EVE Universe in the same way that Dust 514 does. It adds a further dimension of gameplay and further interaction between different genres which broadens the stable of games that CCP has while remaining true to their IP. It helps reduce risk in the marketplace from being in one segment only and provides them with a number of excellent opportunities. (I think)

This is why I'm a strong advocate for having the World of Darkness team re-purposed to create EVE: Avatar or whatever it is called as a separate game that can be modularly loaded and used within EVE: Online (If desired) and where capsuleers can be used (If desired, but not required).

I see this as a much more viable alternative than simply asking on the forum for WiS to be developed as part of EVE. One has a semi realistic chance of happening the other? Well; it's pretty much as you have stated. Needing a massive effort for conception through to pleasant gaming experience with years with their whole crews invested.

Eventually, hopefully, they will be able to through other teams tackle the God / sim type games and perhaps even some brilliant RTS gameplay as well to provide further hooks to the EVE Universe for other genre gamers and to extend the ability for us capsuleers to interact, build and help destroy them.
Jame Jarl Retief
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#38 - 2013-04-14 01:31:20 UTC
Nico elScorpio wrote:
Dude, again thats not EVE, thats mixing something completely different in there. Why should CCP do that?


Didn't CCP themselves say that avatar gameplay was planned pretty much from day one, as a natural expansion of EVE into a full-blown sci-fi sim rather than just internet spaceships? Didn't CCP themselves in an interview admit that lack of avatars and avatar-related gameplay really hurt the game (especially in Asia)? Didn't CCP already spend YEARS of development time on Carbon engine, and creating all those avatars and assets?

Those reasons good enough for you? Because there's plenty more.

Quote:
The argument that sooner or later CCP gotta come up with something really revolutionary to remain competitive with their game is true, thinking this should be integrating another completely new game is just unrealistic waste of time thinking and writing about it.


What's the alternative?

Think about it for a second, what more can they do to the game as it is right now, with minimum effort? Can they add direct control of the ships, similar to Star Citizen? Doubtful. And definitely not with a physics engine like that game. Just try and remember how long and how painfully the process of simply having weapons MISS ships, visually, was when CCP did it. Remember? Imagine how much more complex a task the direct control would be, and a new physics engine? Impossible. But since avatar gameplay would be entirely separate from space gameplay via a loading screen, they can do this without totally wrecking the game proper.

Because, let me tell you, a couple of new hulls or a new way to mine is NOT going to be enough to keep EVE spinning, after the competition starts to line up. If you look at titles currently in development, there's quite a few of them now that could be, by a small stretch of the imagination, be considered direct competition. All those folks looking for "PvP" and "goodfights" might be quite interested in games like Star Citizen, despite it not being a true MMO. Throw in avatar gameplay that game promises, and you've got trouble on horizon. Did you read the stuff they're promising? With avatars actually showing wear and tear (scars, missing limbs) from combat, etc.? Mode depth there than most RPGs, for crying out loud.

Quote:
Can you please just bury all this WiS thing and wish and beg for the revolutionaries to come in the actual game, in space, in spaceships. not in stations. if you want this play to average MMO of your choice please and leave us alone.


See, that's just the thing - do you think EVE can attract more players, AND keep the old ones from quitting due to boredom/burnout/whatever, by just modifying the spaceships in space? Think about it a second. Think back over the last two years. Almost 100% of the changes in the last two years have been about ships in space, in some form. And? Did EVE's population explode? Did we break concurrent user records? Nope. We did climb over 500k total subs, but that's A) after releasing the game in Asia and B) with everyone and their grandma having multiple alt accounts due to shoddy game mechanics, I sincerely doubt we've actually gained any new players in significant numbers, nor kept them.

All in all, EVE needs *something*. And WiS could totally work. Space Hulk-like gameplay, if done right, could be interesting. Boarding combat could add a whole new dimension to PvP. And don't tell me avatar combat and boarding is hard, because MMOs as far back as January 2008 have done it, and it wasn't all that difficult (see Pirates of the Burning Sea).
Nico elScorpio
Care Bear Hi Sec Industries
#39 - 2013-04-14 02:02:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Nico elScorpio
OK great, somehow i ****** up posting my more than brilliant answer to your points and everything is gone now. Not writing all of this again so im out of this Ugh. Probably space jah refused that truth is told the world is not ready for yet.
Frying Doom
#40 - 2013-04-14 02:07:32 UTC
WiS is dead.

I would have been nice, but they have wasted so much development time on it that the rest of the game has grown old and there are so many old bugs to fix.

If they ever get everything working properly, then maybe another look at WiS but not until then.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
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