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Help with salvage thiefs.
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Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2011-10-30 00:48:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Aqriue
I pop wrecks all the time, but also checking Dscan gives me a heads up that company is comming. I do it to get them to fly around my deadspace, they think it bothers me but its more of a mini-game. I get LP, Salvage, Loot, and bounty, sometimes I can't have all of it but even destroying wrecks I still get half the rewards.

Quote:
As the wrecks dont belong to you its not stealing the salvage is a free for all and its your problem if you dont get i in time.

Wrecks do belong to you, the salvage generated out of nothing does not belong to me until its in your cargohold and the wreck is consumed via the activation of a salvager. Can say otherwise, but if it has my portrait on it, its yellow to you, you cannot steal from it without gaining agression (so if the wreck container wasn't mine, TEARS has been doing it wrong for years), you cannot tractor it or shoot it without CONCORD retailiation, only I can blue it to make the entire deadspace open loot rights. Basicly I can determine if I want to give it to you, tractor it, or pop it. What I cannot do is prevent you from activating a salvager and gaining salvage which doesn't exist unless its in your cargo hold, but I can prevent you from trying to get the salvage by destroying it. What I wouldn't give for a right click --> destroy all wreck options in a fireworks display to save me the hassle of targeting every wreck (and I use Dscan often, most the wrecks are usually destroyed before they get into mission and finish off the remaining wrecks when about to complete the mission so rarely do they get anything)
Nikolai Vodkov
Pro Synergy
#22 - 2011-10-30 08:34:52 UTC
You need to be aware that there are two types of "thieves" that will show up in your mission.

A) Some poor noob that heard that ninja is a great way to make ISK instead of mining veldspar in a bantam. They come to your mission and only salvage the wrecks, then go on their merry way.

B) People who actually don't care about the loot or salvage, but are there to steal from your wrecks hoping you would shoot them. When you do that, they will come back in a pvp ship and destroy you.

To be honest, I don't know why you're so mad about people taking your salvage. Yes, it's messed up and nobody likes uninvited guests but at the end of the day it's actually NOT worth looting/salvaging your own missions, so you might as well team up with them as it's been suggested and let them loot and split.

ALTERNATIVELY, if you got some annoying Ninja's send them our way. We'll turn them into honest and outstanding citizens of New Eden that missions runners LOVE. We've been called the "Ninja Rehab" before P

Run level 4 missions?  Increase your income and help new players earn ISK.  Join channel: [b]Pro Synergy Pro Synergy[/b] is looking for dedicated Salvagers.  Want to learn more?  Join channel: Pro Synergy
Hershman
Creepers Corporation
#23 - 2011-10-30 09:53:13 UTC
This thread makes me want to take up ninja salvaging as a hobby Big smile

I play EVE every day! Follow me at http://www.twitch.tv/matthershman
Jak'rat
Doomheim
#24 - 2011-10-30 21:55:56 UTC
Nikolai Vodkov wrote:
You need to be aware that there are two types of "thieves" that will show up in your mission.

A) Some poor noob that heard that ninja is a great way to make ISK instead of mining veldspar in a bantam. They come to your mission and only salvage the wrecks, then go on their merry way.

B) People who actually don't care about the loot or salvage, but are there to steal from your wrecks hoping you would shoot them. When you do that, they will come back in a pvp ship and destroy you.


C) Some self-important businessman who has conned you into turning the wrecks blue or inviting them to your fleet and taxing you 55% for the privelige...

Seriously mate. If you'd just said "most thieves" I'd have left it, but you and too many other people are hell bent on painting yourselves as experts on why other people do stuff, and deciding which little box we all fit in - without any clue what you're talking about.

I don't need the cash, I don't want the killmails. But I'll keep on popping in and out of other people's missions whenever I please. Stick that in your pop-psychology pipe and smoke it....

"That's not a ship, it's a flying shotgun..."
Nikolai Vodkov
Pro Synergy
#25 - 2011-10-31 05:47:31 UTC
Jak'rat wrote:
Nikolai Vodkov wrote:
You need to be aware that there are two types of "thieves" that will show up in your mission.

A) Some poor noob that heard that ninja is a great way to make ISK instead of mining veldspar in a bantam. They come to your mission and only salvage the wrecks, then go on their merry way.

B) People who actually don't care about the loot or salvage, but are there to steal from your wrecks hoping you would shoot them. When you do that, they will come back in a pvp ship and destroy you.


C) Some self-important businessman who has conned you into turning the wrecks blue or inviting them to your fleet and taxing you 55% for the privelige...

Seriously mate. If you'd just said "most thieves" I'd have left it, but you and too many other people are hell bent on painting yourselves as experts on why other people do stuff, and deciding which little box we all fit in - without any clue what you're talking about.

I don't need the cash, I don't want the killmails. But I'll keep on popping in and out of other people's missions whenever I please. Stick that in your pop-psychology pipe and smoke it....


Hey man, no need to make random unbased accusations. We loot for missioners who would just leave their wrecks there to rot and lag in space, and we pay them 45% for it, and at the same time provide a great way for new players to make decent ISK w/o stepping on anyone's toes.

On the other note, yes there are many different sorts of people that do things for many different reasons, but I have just pointed out the two most common ones, at least from my personal experience and of those around me.

Run level 4 missions?  Increase your income and help new players earn ISK.  Join channel: [b]Pro Synergy Pro Synergy[/b] is looking for dedicated Salvagers.  Want to learn more?  Join channel: Pro Synergy
Jak'rat
Doomheim
#26 - 2011-10-31 10:38:21 UTC
Nikolai Vodkov wrote:


Hey man, no need to make random unbased accusations.


Such as saying that all salvage thieves are either "poor noobs" or only there for PvP, for example...

(By the way, in that list that you started and that I was using to make a point about perspective, there's also a D), an E), an F), and the rest of the damn alphabet.)

"That's not a ship, it's a flying shotgun..."
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#27 - 2011-10-31 10:48:58 UTC
TrollFace TrololMcFluf wrote:
You just need to understand THEY DON'T CARE OF YOUR CRAP, THEY WANT YOUR SHIP KM and feed epeen fake kb's with fake km's

Last time i checked a kill was a kill was a kill it must take a very narrow minded wannabe pvper (i wont call you a pirate you clearly aint) to think like this so as they dont play within your mind frame they are fakes

+1 eve parasite detected




High sec fake piwate pussie detected.

yearrrrrr Lol
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#28 - 2011-10-31 14:12:41 UTC
Step 1:
Realise that they are not thieves. They are competitors, and you need to deal with them as such. You can either fit your ship to compete better, or you can forfeit the match and give them the winnings. Or, go for the sour-grapes method and make sure you both lose.

Step 2:
Realise that salvage is not loot and vice versa. Those who are interested in actually stealing from you — i.e. take loot that you own — often have the ulterior motive of getting into a fight. It's usually a bad idea to grant them this wish.

…and that's really all there is to it.
Spineker
#29 - 2011-10-31 18:07:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Spineker
I blow it all up and laugh for them wasting their time scanning down my low sig ship. Reverse griefing and can be fun when bored. 6 launchers 3.6 second rate of fire and 2 3 second lock time can waste an entire room before they get more then one or so.

Or the best one is Pirate invasion Sansha where you are surrounded by battle ships and if you move very much you get aggro. I have had two kill them selves there and lol'ed them pretty good. Otherwise I waste all the wrecks cause I can. The better part is I rarely loot or salvage so just being mean. If they ask they can have it if they just want to come in like cockroaches they can have empty space.
Kira Deschain
Arcane Odyssey
Electus Matari
#30 - 2011-10-31 18:15:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Kira Deschain
I tend to use artillery for most L4s I run and that means I can one-shot any wreck from quite a long distance. So if a freeloader does show up I wait until they start their tractor-beams and then pop those wrecks; and only those wrecks. It makes no sense to me that you don't have rights to a wreck which YOU created but you do have rights to the loot in the wreck. But I also know that CCP will never change that so I protest by shooting the wrecks. Sometimes I even wait until the pilot turns on the salvager THEN I pop the wreck. Of course they complain quite loudly about this, but complaining is easy to ignore. :-)


Spineker wrote:
If they ask they can have it if they just want to come in like cockroaches they can have empty space.


Had to edit and say that I agree with this. Politeness goes a long way in my book. If someone warped into my mission and simply asked, "Hey, mind if I salvage your wrecks?", I would immediately abandon all wrecks. It's the inflated sense of entitlement that pisses me off.
Laurici
C5 Flight
Fraternity.
#31 - 2011-10-31 19:33:28 UTC
You should definitely start a thread in the Crime and Punishment forum, they are really helpful in there about these kinds of things
Alyssa Yotosala
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#32 - 2011-10-31 19:55:07 UTC
OP, you base your post on an incorrect assumption.

Other players who salvage wrecks that you generate are *not* thieves.

CCP has stated time and time again, that salvaging is not stealing, because you do not own the salvage. You only own the loot.

There is no need to 'pay back' the 'thief', as there is no thief.

If they stole your loot, they would be red to you ( though you would be a fool to agress them, as you would get all blowed up )
Jak'rat
Doomheim
#33 - 2011-10-31 20:42:48 UTC
a Mission Runner complaining about salvagers wrote:
It's the inflated sense of entitlement that pisses me off.


Cant...
stop....
laughing...

Lol

"That's not a ship, it's a flying shotgun..."
JackStraw56
Run Like an Antelope
#34 - 2011-10-31 20:47:01 UTC
Cryissa wrote:
I shoot my wreck at times. Your saying don't? Why not? If I don't want them to have it and can't stop them I do shoot them sometimes. Well most of the time.

Most of the time the ninja does not want the isk from your wrecks. They want to **** you off and hopefully kill you. Shooting the wrecks lets them know that they've pissed you off and makes them want to do it even more.
Cunane Jeran
#35 - 2011-11-01 01:47:27 UTC
Mission away from the busy spots, and you'll never have a problem. Currently running lv4's from a nice 0.5 never more than 6-10 people in local.

If they do come in, just ignore them and write it off as a loss.
Orlacc
#36 - 2011-11-01 05:06:56 UTC
You used to be able to have fun with the third part of the Recon mission when the salvagers would drop in.

"Measure Twice, Cut Once."
Aggressive Nutmeg
#37 - 2011-11-01 06:04:06 UTC
Premise: This game is a competition. You are competing with other players for resources.

Is it wise to leave resources (in this case wrecks) lying around for your competitors to benefit from?

Is it wise (in hisec at least) to bother hoovering up your own wrecks, since it would probably be more profitable to start your next mission?

Therefore, is blowing up your wrecks as you go not a logical course of action (in many missions at least)?

I keep hearing this game is about 'tears'. Are there not tears to be extracted from mission invaders as they arrive a second too late to each and every wreck that you've just popped?

Nothing further, Your Honour.

Never make eye contact with someone while eating a banana.
Desudes
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2011-11-01 06:30:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Desudes
Alyssa Yotosala wrote:
OP, you base your post on an incorrect assumption.

Other players who salvage wrecks that you generate are *not* thieves.

CCP has stated time and time again, that salvaging is not stealing, because you do not own the salvage. You only own the loot.

There is no need to 'pay back' the 'thief', as there is no thief.

If they stole your loot, they would be red to you ( though you would be a fool to agress them, as you would get all blowed up )


By the legal rules of the game it may not be stealing but anyone with any sense of fair play agrees it is outright theft. CCP can say whatever they want. The only difference between taking salvage and taking loot is one flags you and the other doesn't. Unless I'm feeling lazy and happen to be near a BS rat or named rat wreck, I always do both or none.

No one comes for my salvage due to flying an Ishtar armor tanked (small sig radius) in missions, otherwise I'd have a minmatar gank account. Gank cyclone or something, DPS in missions until some **** came along and salvaged without asking.

I'd let anyone that asked have it unless they were an older character, in which case I'd ask why the heck he can't run his own L4s. Hell, I even advertised in Dodixie when I missioned there and left all my salvage: no one took me up on it as they wanted people to get upset about it lol.

Excuse me, but what the f*ck are you desu?
Ometoch
Nothing Useful
#39 - 2011-11-01 08:31:08 UTC
Well, you have few options here. This is no different than the rules of salvage in the real world. In international waters, salvage can be claimed by anyone. Same in EvE. If you are wondering what they want... it's simple. your tears. Sweet delicious tears, as the Suddenly Ninjas guys would say. They aren't sociopaths, they are simply playing this game they way they want to. Getting aggro about it is what they want, and it does make for some very funny local/private chat logs. If you want some education about this whole ninja salvaging/looting thing, check out C7P forum here, or www.mylootyourtears.com Honestly, I have yet to have them take my salvage, but again, remember, there are many forms of PvP in EvE. It is a sandbox, and just because someone else doesn't play the way you do doesn't mean either of you are wrong. I always have my alt behind me to salvage when I am missioning, or a corpie that is the salvage monkey for that run. we usually switch off.

tl;dr: Accept that missioning, especially lvl 4 missions will sometimes get ninja looters. Deal with it however you see fit, but I can tell you that getting pissed is exactly what they want.
Joshke
Red's Swashbucklers Corp
Passive Paladin
#40 - 2011-11-01 09:24:56 UTC
The best way is to ignore loot and salvaging at all - it is 1) boring , 2) it takes your time and 3) it brings not at all so much. Better, do more missions instead of swapping to your salvage ship, warping here and there, salvaging (omg, how it is boring!) carrieng all these scram to your trade hub.... - you simply earn 10x more on bounty and LP if you do another couple missions during this time.

P.S. Bad tip is to ignore ninjas. Just imagine what a pain would be, if a ninja take your mission's loot.