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Could a Mega Corp Defect?? *Spoilers*
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Ivoto
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2013-04-11 01:54:13 UTC
Hello Fiction!

The following contains spoilers related to the EVE novel Templar One. Ye be warned.

Today I was thinking...which is often dangerous to myself and others. A month ago I finished reading Templar One (Which I HIGHLY recommend) and Tibus Heth seriously pissed off Ishukone, to a point where they defied him and mounted an all out assault in direct defiance of him. Basically Ishukone's CEO mobilized the entire Corp for war.

Would it be in the realm of possibility that a Mega Corp like Ishukone could defect to the Gallente Federation?

Thoughts? *cough* CCP *cough*
Tavin Aikisen
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#2 - 2013-04-11 03:57:17 UTC
Ivoto wrote:

Would it be in the realm of possibility that a Mega Corp like Ishukone could defect to the Gallente Federation?


I don't think so. State nationalism is just far too strong and extreme for this to occur. Personnel maybe, but not the entire corporation.

Ishukone is only ever done what it's CEO thinks is best for the State. Any self-centered actions have only been to protect itself from a very controlling and aggressive Provist force (which is now attacking other corporations and assets within the State).

The fact that Tibus Heth even has such power is against the very fundamental ideals of the State. Ishukone is just one of the first to stand against it or attempt to work around it.

"Remember this. Trust your eyes, you will kill each other. Trust your veins, you can all go home."

-Cold Wind
Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#3 - 2013-04-21 18:05:19 UTC
You also need to take Templar One and other TonyG (Tony Gonzalez) written works with a heavy dose of salt. His reputation among the RP community is almost universally bad.

Katrina Oniseki
Axel Kurki
Aseyakone
#4 - 2013-04-22 08:25:01 UTC
Regardless of which writer is liked or not, I do believe that all of the current "Big Eight" corporations are, historically, the old "Patriot" corporations (or their successors) back from the Caldari-Gallente war. While the flavour of their propaganda and indoctrination varies, the core message is the same for all: They are Caldari.

Patriots argue that military might is the best way to advance their goals. Practicals argue that industry and trade is the way, especially if they can rig the rules. Liberals are more or less the same as Practicals, except that they in general believe that free trade is more beneficial than trying to load the rules for your own benefit. However, they all will use force when it benefits them. They all will take advantage of any loopholes in laws and regulations. They all will trade when they profit. Even Kaalakiota, which can be assumed to be firmly in CPD hands, has stations in Gallente space, and therefore probably has to trade with the Federation.

As such, a megacorp openly leaving the State would probably lead into major civil unrest amongst its work force. However, there is absolutely zero reason or need to leave the state, as each mega is already a minor nation state on its own. Ishukone has, I understand, been somewhat ostracized in the state (apparently in Templar One: I haven't read it). Therefore, it is natural for Ishukone to do business where it can. As an example of a Caldari State member which does business primarily "abroad" is Quafe, which (while being monitored more closely than other megacorporations) is also a native Caldari corporation.

Now I do not know if this is still canon, but Red Moon Rising era Caldari tutorial mission arc mentioned that there is a treaty between the State and the Federation which decrees that (at least orbital) civil property of the Caldari megacorporations enjoys extraterritoriality even in the Federation. (In that arc, the Gallente had captured a Caldari spy. However, the spy had been arrested in an in-station apartment owned by a Caldari corporation, and thus forced to be released.) There are, of course, opposite cases - well, not sure how this works during the petty war we're having in the setting, but the Federal Navy can operate legally inside Caldari State borders as long as it is contracted to provide security there.

So, should Ishukone (or some other mega) legally acquire property in the Federation or elsewhere, this property becomes State sovereign territory, and therefore, the corporation is not de jure operating abroad. Admitted, Ishukone would trade with the Federation, but most if not all megacorporations already do that, as well. At the moment, the capability of the Ishukone Watch to actually fight a full-blown was is, if I am correct, somewhat limited, so that point is somewhat moot, but behind the facade, the corporations do occasionally fight each other. During the current war, at least Lai Dai has been involved in assassinations and sabotage (on the receiving end and probably returning the favour as well) and as a high-profile example, Heth's first aide (Janus Bravour) was murdered.
Tavin Aikisen
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#5 - 2013-04-23 01:51:53 UTC
Axel Kurki wrote:
Therefore, it is natural for Ishukone to do business where it can. As an example of a Caldari State member which does business primarily "abroad" is Quafe, which (while being monitored more closely than other megacorporations) is also a native Caldari corporation.


Sorry but just to correct this, Quafe is a Gallentean company. But your point still stands. In the EVElopedia it's mentioned that this is the only foreign company to be given corporate status within the State. It's also a great example of the free trade that the State is engaged in. :)

Quafe (Chronicle)

"Remember this. Trust your eyes, you will kill each other. Trust your veins, you can all go home."

-Cold Wind
Axel Kurki
Aseyakone
#6 - 2013-04-23 07:42:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Axel Kurki
Tavin Aikisen wrote:
Axel Kurki wrote:
Therefore, it is natural for Ishukone to do business where it can. As an example of a Caldari State member which does business primarily "abroad" is Quafe, which (while being monitored more closely than other megacorporations) is also a native Caldari corporation.


Sorry but just to correct this, Quafe is a Gallentean company. But your point still stands. In the EVElopedia it's mentioned that this is the only foreign company to be given corporate status within the State. It's also a great example of the free trade that the State is engaged in. :)

Quafe (Chronicle)

I am aware that Quafe is, as per the game mechanics, Gallente. Probably should have used some other word than "native", but the end result is that they are at least technically on the same line in the State as the native corps. However, I would not see it as an example of "free trade", but rather as an example on how insanely powerful Quafe is. Sure, they sell sugar water. They probably also sell pretty much everything else.

The funny part at discussing the origins on the megacorps is that most likely any but the newest of the Big Eight (uh, NOH and Lai Dai?) were probably incorporated in the Gallente Federation back when Caldari Prime was a member.

Edit: Finally, the original intent at referencing Quafe was to demonstrate that Caldari State isn't (despite CPD's federalist goals) a state in the traditional sense. The corporations co-operate (and have given some control to Provists regarding production facilities and other resources), but they are still otherwise highly independent, and unless they directly oppose policies commonly agreed upon in the CEP, they are - at least technically - doing nothing wrong. Even opposing CPD (as in SuVee's recent case) is probably down to what we consider a violation of a commercial contract than treason.
Freya Kaundur
Doomheim
#7 - 2013-05-01 04:53:22 UTC
eve needs a shake up i would love to see a maga corp defect and start a civil war. there a sub sects in most of the empires that are not happy with how things are going. i think its about time we got a 5th empire. not playable but story wise.
Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#8 - 2013-05-01 06:02:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Katrina Oniseki
Quafe was and remains Gallentean. It's run by Gallenteans (look at the list of divisional heads). It's Gallentean in culture.

It is not a Caldari entity.

It has achieved megacorporate Status recently (within the last ten years) solely due to its power and influence, not ebcause it is Caldari. It's an outsider that pursued and achieved megacorporate status so that it can operate unimpeded within the Caldari State.

Do not mistake Quafe for a Caldari corporation.

Katrina Oniseki
Axel Kurki
Aseyakone
#9 - 2013-05-02 08:06:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Axel Kurki
I did primarily concern legal matters. I am not sure if we know enough - what differentiates the megacorps found on Caldari Prime which formed the Caldari State from corporations that have possibly joined the State later? One clear legal distinction is having representation in the Chief Executive Panel, which I understand is limited to the Big Eight. Of course, if this is the deciding factor, then independent Caldari corporations aren't Caldari. A canonical example would be Ytiri, before they sold out to Kaalakiota - they at least technically were independent. Even prior to the Empyrean Age, Kaalakiota held 55% of the shares according to old shareholder information preserved in the wonderfully not-updated eve-wiki.net.

I think I mentioned somewhere the old rookie story arcs (Red Moon Rising era, IIRC - when I started out, Gallente rookie arc was about protecting the plans of the shiny new Ares interceptor whereas Caldari tried to steal the blueprints). There it was mentioned that the Caldari corporations enjoy extraterritoriality in the Federation. Quafe probably does not, which makes it less independent from the Gallente. Ironically, this probably means that they technically have more operating freedom in the State. In practice, their level of control of the Gallente culture, as we see below, may invalidate this assumption.

Culturally, Quafe is without doubt Gallente. That said, corporate cultures vary within the state, but adherence to what probably accounts for Federation mainstream culture does clearly single Quafe out as a Gallentean corporation. However, they do have an image that is distinctive and impartial enough for things like Girani-Fa negotiations. This is kind of complicated; as we see further below, Quafe controls or has interests in pretty much in all known entertainment in the Federation, so it is possible that they may even to a degree define what is "Gallente mainstream culture".

Structurally, Quafe doesn't look like a Caldari megacorporation, though - it looks like a Caldari faction. Drawing real-world parallels from Japanese conglomerates, the Quafe has, on top of the Quafe corporation itself, a bank (Garoun Investment, 67% stake), a mining company (Material Acquisition, 67%) and a high tech manufacturer (Duvolle, 55% Quafe, 15% Garoun). On top of that, they do have significant interests in entertainment (well, the mother mega probably does entertainment, too, but also 40% stake on Egonics), education (University of Caille, 30%) and transport (Federal Freight, 20%). It is likely that Quafe has a vertical monopoly going on. If it can buy some senators, this probably means that, together with cultural control, its operating is not very much limited in the Federation as long as their public relations can keep things under control (and say, corpses don't start to pop up too often). Interestingly, via Garoun Investment, they also have a stake in Creodron, Roden Shipyards and Impetus. Irritatingly, Chemal Tech's major owner is "anonymous". Should this be at least to a degree Quafe, that'd be huge - meaning that Quafe would control CreoDron, University of Caille and probably Center for Advanced Studies. (The part of CreoDron that isn't owned by Quafe directly or Chemal Tech is owned by CBD, by the way.) So, in a way, there is a chance that not only Quafe is Gallente (as in, "Quafe" belongs to set "Gallente"), but capsuleer part of Gallente Federation is mostly Quafe, with two other blocks around the Intaki/Aliastra and national institutions.

This is partially off-topic (off the off-topic Quafe discussion), so in order to finally return to the original idea of whether Quafe would qualify as a Caldari corporation: No, they are not of the Big Eight. They do operate as a domestic corporation, though they are significantly different from other corporations in that they do not only control their own corporate culture, but also have a significant degree of control of the Gallente culture. This comes with significant interests in the Federation, even beyond what other "State-domestic" corporations doing business in the Fed (CBD, Ishukone, Kaalakiota) have. However, the greatest difference might well be that while Caldari corporations are practically countries, Quafe - at least outside of the State - operates more as what we'd consider a corporation.