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[Odyssey] Navy Battlecruisers

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Nagarythe Tinurandir
Einheit X-6
#81 - 2013-04-10 19:56:17 UTC
Kaal Redrum wrote:


[2] Also, such a disappointing and epic lazy design decision on the Hurricane Fleet Issue.

Further the Matari alternate doctrine of launchers and continue your attempt to 'redeem Minmatar split weapon platforms' - take the Cane Fleet in the direction of Scythe Fleet please.

Versatile fitting with 2 equal bonuses to guns n launchers - let pilots fit either set
2 Utility Highs
Fast and Small Sig

At least try, youre really expecting people to shell out ~200m+ for the old Cane with extra beef?



While i like the idea of a FIscythe treatment for the FIcane, some difference should be made. Otherwise you just dilute the incentive to fly the FIscythe.

How about focussing them more on a support function. For example the old scythe had a bonus on Tracking Links.
I imagine them equal to their t1 counterpart in a one on one but when they are part of a small gang, the whole gang profits from their presence.

boosting the strengths of their own race:
FIcane: tracking link
NIbrutix: remote sensor boosters
NIharbinger: cap transfer
NIdrake: remote eccm

or maybe countering the strengths of the opposite race:
FIcane: cap transfer
NIbrutix: remote eccm
NIharbinger: tracking links
NIdrake: remote sensor booster

this way they have a role in fleets without beeing an expensive version of the pre-tiericite BCs. Just nerfing the cane to introduce the old one as navy is kind of moot. why nerfing the cane in the first place? the easier way would have been to just raise the material costs of the pre-tiericite BCs until they are as expensive as this navy BCs will be.
DragonZer0
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
#82 - 2013-04-10 19:56:49 UTC
Looking over most of them they look decently solid tell you come to the drake...

The F*** are you thinking?!
Only 800pg that almost as bad as the Nighhawk which need a major pg boost as it base is only 710 cant do jack with that
Mr Floydy
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#83 - 2013-04-10 19:59:20 UTC
Turning them into support ships = rubbish idea tbh....

Take the Harbinger for example. Why on earth would you fly a 200m faction battlecruiser to provide some cap transfer? Get in a Guardian, provide cap transfer with a neat extra perk of being able to provide armour too.

Support roles that like belong in the support classes like Recon/Logistics imo.
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#84 - 2013-04-10 20:02:51 UTC
DragonZer0 wrote:
Looking over most of them they look decently solid tell you come to the drake...

The F*** are you thinking?!
Only 800pg that almost as bad as the Nighhawk which need a major pg boost as it base is only 710 cant do jack with that


it can fit a full rack of HAMs, a MWD and an LSE. What exactly are you whining about?
Ersahi Kir
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#85 - 2013-04-10 20:03:19 UTC
The biggest issue that I have with any of these is that the myrm wasn't chosen as the galente boat. A navy myrm would be pro, even if it wasn't a drone boat.

The only other thing that sticks out to me is the targeting range on the drake may be just a tad low for a ship with a range bonus.

/6 gun myrm would make me a very happy person
//myrm looks so neat
///MYRM!
Zen Sarum
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#86 - 2013-04-10 20:04:09 UTC
Underwhelmed... These should have been faster dangerous and expensive ships with a real role (role being damage projecting attack cruiser/ navy cruiser killer!) with decent slots.. for the price I'd rather be in a cynabel SFI GIla or any of the attack battlecruisers.

Harbinger is ok mostly due to T2 medium pulse lasers + scotch + tracking bonus = lol
so T1 has nice turrets, with the extra turret NI is not bad but could do with a 20% optimal range role bonus with a smaller bay (25/25). 6H 5M 8L. 180m/s -10% sig radius

Drake should have been a missile spewing drakenmonster 10% missile velocity and 5% ROF. It should have favoured speed over tank. In return for a loss of drone bay. Role bonus of 20% bonus to missile duration would have been nice. 7H 6M 6L, 7 launchers. 180m/s sig radius is ok.

Myrmidon (should have been a MYRM navy issue not brutix) 10% bonus to hybrid damage 7.5% Medium Hybrid Turret tracking bonus per level. Role bonus of +50% fall off, with a smaller (50/50) drone bay and no drone bonus. 7H 5M 7L. 7 turrets, 195m/s -10% sig radius

Hurricane should have been a high damage kiting sniper/brawler +5% to medium projectile damage and 10% bonus to medium projectile range per level. Role bonus of -200% signiture radius with MWD use. 8 H, 5 M, 6 L, 7 turrets, 3 launchers, 200m/s -10% sig radius
Mr Floydy
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#87 - 2013-04-10 20:05:21 UTC
I'd certainly not object to seeing the Myrm model used - always liked the model, would be quite cool to see a Myrm not reliant on drones - something to be a real contrast to the normal one. Imagine Gallente pilots would quite like a Myrm with 6 guns, 5% rate of fire and an ehp bonus? :)
Ersahi Kir
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#88 - 2013-04-10 20:09:39 UTC
I don't see the ability to fit a gang link on these ships. Is this being removed as an option for utility highs from the normal versions, or just something that wasn't listed?
Mr Dobalina
Fraudulent Foes
#89 - 2013-04-10 20:12:42 UTC
Aggghhhh why the hell do you guys keep using a cammo paint scheme on spaceships? It doesn't make them any less visible in space.
May Wanderdriven
The Driven
#90 - 2013-04-10 20:17:34 UTC  |  Edited by: May Wanderdriven
Vladimir Norkoff wrote:
May Wanderdriven wrote:
Catherine Laartii wrote:
May Wanderdriven wrote:
Why on earth there is no cap bonus for the harbinger navy? don't you guys know that cap is life? what's wrong with you? why do you insist of ruining the Amarr?


Pretty sure that with the recent ship rebalances for amarr that CCP finally understood that the only sensible, straighforward way to fix amarr is to half the cap usage on the guns, instead of, you know, screwing over the ships by giving them bonuses to allow them to use the actual laser weapon in question.

Or, more likely, they could just be rolling full steam ahead without even considering that and they'll all become useless hulks with the exception of the drone/neut boats.


If they are doing that, then by all means, do it. But the problem with that is that the amarr may be losing it's diversity.
Still it's far less worse than having no cap AT ALL. I'll want to hear from CCP about it to believe it though.

Errr.... You people do realize that this Navy Harb got an additional mid slot and more grid, right? So you can fit a cap booster in addition to your old fit. And last I checked, cap booster > no booster in PvP. So this is much much better than the cap bonus. But I'm sure if you whine and cry enough they can swap the tracking bonus for your old cap bonus, and then you can fit a tracking computer in the mid to get your tracking... :-/

Back in the day Ivy League actually taught players not to be complete idiots. What happened?


Yes, I do realize that, and I think that the ship could have a much greater variety with a cap bonus instead of a tracking bonus. Reason being that I CAN put a TC in the mid, but I can go for E-War or more webs (or something else), and then I don't have to worry as much about cap. Why should I be forced to stay with the cap booster?

Oh and Mr Floydy, the Harbinger has a 10% reduction in Medium Energy Weapon capacitor need.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#91 - 2013-04-10 20:18:58 UTC
Mr Dobalina wrote:
Aggghhhh why the hell do you guys keep using a cammo paint scheme on spaceships? It doesn't make them any less visible in space.

To convey the sense that these are vessels redesigned by military entities. Has nothing to do with visibility.
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#92 - 2013-04-10 20:20:46 UTC
Pretty sure I'd rather keep the cap bonus on the harbinger than gain a tracking bonus.
Iam Widdershins
Project Nemesis
#93 - 2013-04-10 20:21:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Iam Widdershins
Deerin wrote:
First!

Edit:
Now that I've read them:

They suck. The price difference is not worth the changes

[...]

Drake has NO damage bonus. It will be out damaged by regular drakes AND it loses resist bonus, which is the strongest bonus in game imo. So in total I believe Drake NI will be....meh at best.

Brutix is in a good spot. It is now more fleet oriented.

This post made me laugh so much.

These ships are great. Good price point, great performance; I especially like the Drake.



Vimsy Vortis wrote:
Pretty sure I'd rather keep the cap bonus on the harbinger than gain a tracking bonus.

Surely you jest!

Lobbying for your right to delete your signature
Mr Floydy
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#94 - 2013-04-10 20:22:28 UTC
May Wanderdriven wrote:
Yes, I do realize that, and I think that the ship could have a much greater variety with a cap bonus instead of a tracking bonus. Reason being that I CAN put a TC in the mid, but I can go for E-War or more webs (or something else), and then I don't have to worry as much about cap. Why should I be forced to stay with the cap booster?

Oh and Mr Floydy, the Harbinger has a 10% reduction in Medium Energy Weapon capacitor need.


Wait, what? There would be more variety if it had the same bonus as the basic Harbinger? what in the actual hell are you on about? Do you realise what variety means?

I'm fully aware that the Harbinger has a 10% cap bonus for lasers, that is my point in it's entirety. The Navy Harbinger is rightfully different, it offers a different twist on the ship to the T1 version. It's great that the faction versions aren't just mirroring the T1 bonuses with more HP like Navy ships used to.
Iris Bravemount
Golden Grinding Gears
#95 - 2013-04-10 20:24:40 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
BRUTIX NAVY ISSUE

This vessel is an iteration over the regular version. The Armor Repairer amount bonus has been swapped for a 7.5% Medium Hybrid Turret tracking bonus per level, another low slot has been added and it is a bit more maneuverable as well.

• Gallente Battlecruiser skill bonuses: +10% to medium hybrid turret damage and 7.5% bonus to medium hybrid turret tracking per level
• Slot layout: 7 H, 4 M, 7 L, 6 turrets, 0 launchers
• Fittings: 1235 PWG, 455 CPU
• Defense (shields / armor / hull): 5250 / 6750 / 7125
• Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 3000 / 789 s / 3.8
• Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 155 / 0.704 / 11875000 / 11.6 s
• Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50 / 50
• Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 55km / 200 / 7
• Sensor strength: 22 Magnetometric
• Signature radius: 305


So this is why you kept the crappy armor rep bonus on the Brutix... I can understand that, but the t1 Brutix still has only one useful bonus and, IMHO, should have gotten this (or 4% resist per level) instead.

Until active armor repping is fixed, if it ever will be fixed that is, I really don't see the point to keep inferior (and thus often unused) bonuses on ships.

"I will not hesitate when the test of Faith finds me, for only the strongest conviction will open the gates of paradise. My Faith in you is absolute; my sword is Yours, My God, and Your will guides me now and for all eternity." - Paladin's Creed
May Wanderdriven
The Driven
#96 - 2013-04-10 20:27:22 UTC
Mr Floydy wrote:
May Wanderdriven wrote:
Yes, I do realize that, and I think that the ship could have a much greater variety with a cap bonus instead of a tracking bonus. Reason being that I CAN put a TC in the mid, but I can go for E-War or more webs (or something else), and then I don't have to worry as much about cap. Why should I be forced to stay with the cap booster?

Oh and Mr Floydy, the Harbinger has a 10% reduction in Medium Energy Weapon capacitor need.


Wait, what? There would be more variety if it had the same bonus as the basic Harbinger? what in the actual hell are you on about? Do you realise what variety means?

I'm fully aware that the Harbinger has a 10% cap bonus for lasers, that is my point in it's entirety. The Navy Harbinger is rightfully different, it offers a different twist on the ship to the T1 version. It's great that the faction versions aren't just mirroring the T1 bonuses with more HP like Navy ships used to.


so you suggest that forcing you to stick a cap booster in the mid will increase fitting variety? I don't see how.
Mr Dobalina
Fraudulent Foes
#97 - 2013-04-10 20:28:48 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Mr Dobalina wrote:
Aggghhhh why the hell do you guys keep using a cammo paint scheme on spaceships? It doesn't make them any less visible in space.

To convey the sense that these are vessels redesigned by military entities. Has nothing to do with visibility.


What space fairing military ****** would paint a ship cammo? I'm pretty sure the guns attached to the hull are enough to demonstrate what the people who designed it had in mind.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#98 - 2013-04-10 20:35:32 UTC
Mr Dobalina wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Mr Dobalina wrote:
Aggghhhh why the hell do you guys keep using a cammo paint scheme on spaceships? It doesn't make them any less visible in space.

To convey the sense that these are vessels redesigned by military entities. Has nothing to do with visibility.


What space fairing military ****** would paint a ship cammo? I'm pretty sure the guns attached to the hull are enough to demonstrate what the people who designed it had in mind.

Guns are present regardless of the manufacturer, so I'm not sure what you are getting at there.
AnJuan Jackson
Red Star Trading Corporation
#99 - 2013-04-10 20:39:38 UTC
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
I am terrible at this game but... dat FI cane... is it our old beloved cane we used to cause whine threads with in the past? :)


I've always wanted a T2 Cane, but I guess this will have to do. I'm in.

Edit: SHUT UP AND TAKE MY ISK CCP!!
Svodola Darkfury
Cloak and Daggers
The Initiative.
#100 - 2013-04-10 20:41:41 UTC
All of these are great, except for this:

The Brutix Faction variant is un-needed. All the other ships are previous Tier 2 ships, and therefore have no Tech 2 variant.

Faction Myrmidon needs to be the Faction choice, as the Brutix faction will suffer in the same way as the Stabber-> Stabber Fleet -> vagabond conundrum.

Svo.

Director of Frozen Corpse Industries.