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With Hybrid Changes, is it time to bring back snipers?
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Garbad theWeak
#1 - 2011-10-31 18:55:37 UTC
Right now, snipers are useless.

Anything more than 150k away is easy to probe down and warp the fleet on top of, leaving them vulnerable to superior the superior dps/tracking of mid range weapons like autocannons or pulse lasers or even drake blobs. Even within 100-150k, a prober behind the main fleet can still probe you down, making sniping iffy at best. This is on top of other challenges sniper fleets face, such as the inability to point a target past 100k, and inferior dps/alpha having a much harder time breaking through logi reps. Accordingly, the meta is all brawler and has been for a long time. Pulse, autocannons dominate close range, arty are only used for alpha. Long range weapons are simply garbage, and snipers are useless.

With hybrids being buffed, they are the kings of 200k+ sniping...but until these issues are fixed, it doesn't matter if hybrids are the best long range ships -- long range ships simply don't work. Other weapon systems (apoc beams) are likewise inferior.

But it doesn't have to be that way. CCP can bring back sniping with three simple fixes:

1. Eliminate on grid probing. No longer can an anamthema probe you down 151k away, they either have to be off grid (making it impossible to warp fleet) or the brawler blob has to physically chase you down to warp the fleet on top of you (ala I was there, eve video).

2. Eliminate the 249k sensor range. Bring back the 300k sniper rokhs. Why? To give them a role. Even if probing is changed to allow sniping, 150-200k snipers do far more damage with similar risk (if they can burn to you at 200k, they can burn to you at 250k). But rokhs sitting at 300k+ sniping down have that much more room for error, and are that much more viable.

3. Tweak stats on sniperboats as needed. Ships like the muninn, eagle, naga, and so on may need minor tweaks to things like sensor range to encourage sniping. This may not even be necessary, but should be considered.

Should CCP fix this?
Stan Smith
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2 - 2011-10-31 19:00:27 UTC
give the vulture another turret. i have no idea why they didnt get another when the 3 other non-battleship snipers did

☻/ /▌ / \ This is Bob, post him into your forum sig and help him conquer the forums.
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#3 - 2011-10-31 19:03:35 UTC
Add a anchorable "whistle buoy" which redirects all scanning hits on the grid to it, so sniper fleets can protect themselves with them until they get popped by the opposition.

Sovereignty and Population

New Mining Mechanics
Garbad theWeak
#4 - 2011-10-31 19:05:23 UTC
Abrazzar wrote:
Add a anchorable "whistle buoy" which redirects all scanning hits on the grid to it, so sniper fleets can protect themselves with them until they get popped by the opposition.
Interesting idea, but it may have unintended consequences. Carebears could use these and a few well placed cans to make sure no one could catch them unawares in a mission.
Dreimak
XDC-UK
#5 - 2011-10-31 19:06:07 UTC
I approve of this product and/or service.
KFenn
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6 - 2011-10-31 19:07:38 UTC
Garbad theWeak wrote:
Abrazzar wrote:
Add a anchorable "whistle buoy" which redirects all scanning hits on the grid to it, so sniper fleets can protect themselves with them until they get popped by the opposition.
Interesting idea, but it may have unintended consequences. Carebears could use these and a few well placed cans to make sure no one could catch them unawares in a mission.


You almost always warp to a gate, no matter what. That's how missions have always worked. Your point is null.

Commanding Officer of the Treacle Tart Brigade
Garbad theWeak
#7 - 2011-10-31 19:22:25 UTC
KFenn wrote:
Garbad theWeak wrote:
Abrazzar wrote:
Add a anchorable "whistle buoy" which redirects all scanning hits on the grid to it, so sniper fleets can protect themselves with them until they get popped by the opposition.
Interesting idea, but it may have unintended consequences. Carebears could use these and a few well placed cans to make sure no one could catch them unawares in a mission.


You almost always warp to a gate, no matter what. That's how missions have always worked. Your point is null.
Its a lot closer to 50/50, particularly with the 0.0 exclusive missions.
Jack bubu
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#8 - 2011-10-31 19:29:16 UTC
Garbad theWeak wrote:
Right now, snipers are useless.

Anything more than 150k away is easy to probe down and warp the fleet on top of, leaving them vulnerable to superior the superior dps/tracking of mid range weapons like autocannons or pulse lasers or even drake blobs. Even within 100-150k, a prober behind the main fleet can still probe you down, making sniping iffy at best. This is on top of other challenges sniper fleets face, such as the inability to point a target past 100k, and inferior dps/alpha having a much harder time breaking through logi reps. Accordingly, the meta is all brawler and has been for a long time. Pulse, autocannons dominate close range, arty are only used for alpha. Long range weapons are simply garbage, and snipers are useless.

With hybrids being buffed, they are the kings of 200k+ sniping...but until these issues are fixed, it doesn't matter if hybrids are the best long range ships -- long range ships simply don't work. Other weapon systems (apoc beams) are likewise inferior.

But it doesn't have to be that way. CCP can bring back sniping with three simple fixes:

1. Eliminate on grid probing. No longer can an anamthema probe you down 151k away, they either have to be off grid (making it impossible to warp fleet) or the brawler blob has to physically chase you down to warp the fleet on top of you (ala I was there, eve video).

2. Eliminate the 249k sensor range. Bring back the 300k sniper rokhs. Why? To give them a role. Even if probing is changed to allow sniping, 150-200k snipers do far more damage with similar risk (if they can burn to you at 200k, they can burn to you at 250k). But rokhs sitting at 300k+ sniping down have that much more room for error, and are that much more viable.

3. Tweak stats on sniperboats as needed. Ships like the muninn, eagle, naga, and so on may need minor tweaks to things like sensor range to encourage sniping. This may not even be necessary, but should be considered.

Should CCP fix this?


1. This is a good idea and it certainly would add for a lot of interesting situations.

2. Combined with 1 this would make Snipers pretty OP

3. Leave the muninn as it is, its just fine as medium range sniper.
Nimrod Nemesis
Doomheim
#9 - 2011-10-31 20:23:43 UTC
I agree, the elimination of on-grid probing is a must if the long-range sniping niche is still going to exist.