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A proposed fix for ECM

Author
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Of Essence
#1 - 2013-01-10 17:39:30 UTC  |  Edited by: chatgris
TL;DR - Make ECM like a Taunt - The jammed target's systems are locked to only be able to target the ship that is jamming the target.

The general idea would be to remove the ludicrous range on ECM, and replace any range bonus's on ECM with tank bonuses.

This will not be a nerf for what I think is ECM's primary reason for existence - shutting down enemy logistics (as logistics ships generally cannot apply any damage). But the days of a griffin or blackbird jamming 1-4 combat targets in complete safety are over, unless the ECM's fleet is able to keep the targets away from the ECM ship.

This is a fairly well tested gameplay mechanic - take League of Legends for example. The tank classes are low dps, often have ways to force the enemy players to target them, but they are not invincible by any means. They rely on the rest of their team to help keep them alive.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#2 - 2013-01-10 20:22:14 UTC
chatgris wrote:
TL;DR - Make ECM like a Taunt - The jammed target's systems are locked to only be able to target the ship that is jamming the target.

The general idea would be to remove the ludicrous range on ECM, and replace any range bonus's on ECM with tank bonuses.

This will not be a nerf for what I think is ECM's primary reason for existence - shutting down enemy logistics (as logistics ships generally cannot apply any damage). But the days of a griffin or blackbird jamming 1-4 combat targets in complete safety are over, unless the ECM's fleet is able to keep the targets away from the ECM ship.

This is a fairly well tested gameplay mechanic - take League of Legends for example. The tank classes are low dps, often have ways to force the enemy players to target them, but they are not invincible by any means. They rely on the rest of their team to help keep them alive.


ECM's primary reason for existence is to shut down an enemy ship... be it dps, ewar, or logistics... not "just" logistics.

Your proposal has problems... and ECM ships devolve into a pretty horrific locking diagram when several opposing ECM ships get fielded! I think it also makes ECM much more potent than it currently is... especially when coupled with sensor dampeners!

No thank you...
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Of Essence
#3 - 2013-01-10 20:35:02 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Your proposal has problems... and ECM ships devolve into a pretty horrific locking diagram when several opposing ECM ships get fielded! I think it also makes ECM much more potent than it currently is... especially when coupled with sensor dampeners!

No thank you...


Few points

a) The locking diagram is if you are jammed, you can lock whoever is jamming you.
b) About potency - the jam isn't 100% chance, there is still the same mechanic now affected by eccm etc. ECM does not become any more potent.
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#4 - 2013-01-10 20:58:33 UTC
ECM aint broken.

Your fits are.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!

Onslaughtor
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#5 - 2013-01-10 21:07:10 UTC
Asuka Solo wrote:
ECM aint broken.

Your fits are.


True,


Well the Falcon is where most the ECM problem comes from. Pocket Falcons are a annoyance but if you are doing it right you can end up with 2 nice kills instead of one.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#6 - 2013-01-10 23:19:14 UTC
Onslaughtor wrote:
Asuka Solo wrote:
ECM aint broken.

Your fits are.


True,


Well the Falcon is where most the ECM problem comes from. Pocket Falcons are a annoyance but if you are doing it right you can end up with 2 nice kills instead of one.
Indeed.

OP, I suggest you change your cookie cutter setups and use the tools CCP already provide. Big smile

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2013-01-10 23:37:23 UTC
The only change to ECM that I will support is one that changes from a total jam to singular target breaking per successful cycle of the ECM module

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#8 - 2013-01-11 00:08:02 UTC
Asuka Solo wrote:
ECM aint broken.

Your fits are.



so is the fleet planning...

don't like the ecm range...bring a lr shooter. Mixed fleet composition is one name for this.

take 1 sr fit from each race and bum rush a falcon/scorpion and if rainbow fit they will get some jams. Change 1 of those sr fits to "snipe" the falcon and either the falcon will go boom or gtfo. even in the true days of because of falcon this worked. This gave unloved ships like cerb a role for example.

If out of range total range posssible....get something in the falloff range. the math gets hazy there.

Sean Parisi
Blackrise Vanguard
#9 - 2013-01-11 05:12:16 UTC
ECM doesn't seem broken to me to be honest. It is powerful when it works, but laughable when it fails. Main changes to ECM I would personally like to see is for ECM drones to only break lock as opposed to ECMing people completely. Even having other E-War drones scaled up would be nice, essentially I hate the fact that ECM drones - when they work have the same stopping power of bringing another player in a blackbird with you. It requires minimal investment on the part of the pilot for too much benefit, though I do like the idea of having those drones to help players escape.
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
#10 - 2013-04-09 08:20:44 UTC
chatgris wrote:
TL;DR - Make ECM like a Taunt - The jammed target's systems are locked to only be able to target the ship that is jamming the target.

The general idea would be to remove the ludicrous range on ECM, and replace any range bonus's on ECM with tank bonuses.

This will not be a nerf for what I think is ECM's primary reason for existence - shutting down enemy logistics (as logistics ships generally cannot apply any damage). But the days of a griffin or blackbird jamming 1-4 combat targets in complete safety are over, unless the ECM's fleet is able to keep the targets away from the ECM ship.

This is a fairly well tested gameplay mechanic - take League of Legends for example. The tank classes are low dps, often have ways to force the enemy players to target them, but they are not invincible by any means. They rely on the rest of their team to help keep them alive.



There are already easy counters to ecm.

Our guys and on the Gallente side the JustK guys, bring a sniper cormo into the fight to kill the ECM.

If they jam the cormo - pull range till ECM ship can't lock you - then you kill the ECM or force it off field.

Or we send one frigate on ECM killing duty while the rest of fleet continue to follow the FC.
This forces the ECM ship to waste almost every jam on the attacking Frigate as they can't afford even one missed cycle.

Both are very effective and cheap ways of dealing with ecm.

Sean Parisi
Blackrise Vanguard
#11 - 2013-04-09 09:22:27 UTC
IbanezLaney wrote:
chatgris wrote:
TL;DR - Make ECM like a Taunt - The jammed target's systems are locked to only be able to target the ship that is jamming the target.

The general idea would be to remove the ludicrous range on ECM, and replace any range bonus's on ECM with tank bonuses.

This will not be a nerf for what I think is ECM's primary reason for existence - shutting down enemy logistics (as logistics ships generally cannot apply any damage). But the days of a griffin or blackbird jamming 1-4 combat targets in complete safety are over, unless the ECM's fleet is able to keep the targets away from the ECM ship.

This is a fairly well tested gameplay mechanic - take League of Legends for example. The tank classes are low dps, often have ways to force the enemy players to target them, but they are not invincible by any means. They rely on the rest of their team to help keep them alive.



There are already easy counters to ecm.

Our guys and on the Gallente side the JustK guys, bring a sniper cormo into the fight to kill the ECM.

If they jam the cormo - pull range till ECM ship can't lock you - then you kill the ECM or force it off field.

Or we send one frigate on ECM killing duty while the rest of fleet continue to follow the FC.
This forces the ECM ship to waste almost every jam on the attacking Frigate as they can't afford even one missed cycle.

Both are very effective and cheap ways of dealing with ecm.



Maulus is also a very good counter for Griffins. As sensor dampening as griffin removes its "Tank" by forcing it to close on the battle.
Ningishzida
Proxima Fleet Systems
#12 - 2013-04-10 00:21:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Ningishzida
Here's an idea, a succesfull ECM cycle should break after the target takes certain amount of damage, for example x% of total ehp. (similar to some of the games that we do not speak of on these forums).

ECM can still be used to take someone of the fight, but you can't jam someone and apply damage to him at the same time without any penalty. This is probably the most rage inducing mechanic in this game: getting killed and not able to shoot back.

What about some kind of diminishing returns, for example, when a ship is succesfully jammed, it's electronics system will adapt and increase its sensor strength (make this a skill) F.e. 100% sensor strength increase after the 1st jam cycle, making it less likely to be jammed on the 2nd. After a certain time of not being jammed (say 30seconds), sensor strength will return to it's base value.

F.e. base strength: 15 => 30 (after 1st cycle) => 60 (after 2nd) => 120 (after 3rd) etc. Reset time: 30secs after the last jam cycle.
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#13 - 2013-04-10 03:51:29 UTC
Ningishzida wrote:
Here's an idea, a succesfull ECM cycle should break after the target takes certain amount of damage, for example x% of total ehp. (similar to some of the games that we do not speak of on these forums)..



not really solving much. In mid to large scale fights what I did was wait for FC's calls. Primary and secondary names given....down I went to say 4-8 on the list for jamming.

Reason being in larger scale fights jamming the primary was a waste of time. Primary called, its dying fast. I didn't jam secondary....he's dying soon too, wasted cycle(s). Tertiary was iffy, sometimes I hit em sometimes I jsut went for number 4 in the ov list.

So I jam 4-8 on the ov list to limit their effectiveness. they take no damage the whole time until FC makes the new primary call. And when they get called primary...they aer dying fast. Oh noze my jams stop working for you at 50% armour. Sadly, that primary call got you there in 2 huge salvo's....you are dead regardless.

To be honest when I saw FC slide primary to targets 4-8, I killed my jams by hand anyway most times. You got your targetting back and I went further down the list. You if target 4 or 5 were dead soon anyway, you maybe getting 1 volley off not stopping that lol. My jams better applied to targets 9-12.

Dan Carter Murray
#14 - 2013-04-10 07:10:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Dan Carter Murray
chatgris wrote:
TL;DR - Make ECM like a Taunt - The jammed target's systems are locked to only be able to target the ship that is jamming the target.

The general idea would be to remove the ludicrous range on ECM, and replace any range bonus's on ECM with tank bonuses.

This will not be a nerf for what I think is ECM's primary reason for existence - shutting down enemy logistics (as logistics ships generally cannot apply any damage). But the days of a griffin or blackbird jamming 1-4 combat targets in complete safety are over, unless the ECM's fleet is able to keep the targets away from the ECM ship.

This is a fairly well tested gameplay mechanic - take League of Legends for example. The tank classes are low dps, often have ways to force the enemy players to target them, but they are not invincible by any means. They rely on the rest of their team to help keep them alive.


hi chatgris. how do you feel about reducing max # of locked targets per module? (this is % based as currently is).

in other words, if your ecm is successful, the # of max locked targets reduces by 1 or 2 or w/e.

this can be reduced to 0 max targets locked.

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