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New Mission AI

Author
Vindictive Force
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-04-09 00:47:43 UTC
I'm going to try and bring this up as non ragey as possible. The new AI is annoying. I am just coming back to eve after an extended break so I'm sorry if this has already been brought up.

I have heard rumor that this new AI was to make AFK mission running impossible. Well it succeeded, but it also made any drone boat practically useless as a mission ship.

Now I spent 3 years getting to the point my character is at. Yes I can fly many things. Yes I can fly a missile ship. I fly a Drone boat because it is, well was, the most profitable for those of us who took the time and commanded them.

Now I can't have light drones out to kill the frigates at all since they immediatly focus fire when I pull them out. I can eventually glitch the AI and get them to all stay on me, but that takes almost half an hour. Generally I'll lose at least one drone in that timeframe.

Why bother with Drone boats now. Why not just take them out of the game. They can't hold aggro since they only have 4 weapon slots. Everything breaks off of them because of the massive tank they can have.

This is the second time the Devs have "Fixed" something that didn't need fixing. Why rework the ships? No need. Quit ruining the game by making up **** to do so you can justify your job.

Instead add content instead of trying to "Fix" what isn't broken.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#2 - 2013-04-09 01:19:13 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
This has been brought up before. Many times. There are so many problems with the new AI it's stupid. But CCP seems to be sticking to its guns on this one (mostly because a few people MASSIVELY abused the former dumbness of the AI and lots of players asked for the AI to be less dumb).

However... one way to keep the AI focused on you is to use Ewar... any Ewar... or remote repair. I use a Target Painter myself.
Vindictive Force
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#3 - 2013-04-10 03:48:50 UTC
So it's yet another case of few ruining it for the many? I hate to sound like the old guy but I miss the old days. Apocrypha was the last time, it seems, that the game added content.

Sorry I'll leave the forums now. I never read them anyway.
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2013-04-10 04:24:26 UTC
Vindictive Force wrote:
So it's yet another case of few ruining it for the many? I hate to sound like the old guy but I miss the old days. Apocrypha was the last time, it seems, that the game added content.

Sorry I'll leave the forums now. I never read them anyway.


News for you, they're gonna nerf t3s so wh economy dies. Well, the subs that aren't already useless, that is.Big smile
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#5 - 2013-04-10 08:41:59 UTC
Ahhh, another "I have to think, waaah" thread regarding the "new" AI.

Man up, we've dealt with the same AI for years in wormholes (from npcs that hit a lot harder, too)
Vindictive Force
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#6 - 2013-04-11 01:12:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Vindictive Force
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
Ahhh, another "I have to think, waaah" thread regarding the "new" AI.

Man up, we've dealt with the same AI for years in wormholes (from npcs that hit a lot harder, too)


I've done wormholes you twit. I know the AI that used to be in them. Hell I did them when they were first added to the game. Don't preach to me about something I already know about. How about next time before you make an ASS out of yourself for assuming ask a question. Or maybe you would like a jump to conclusions mat for your basement?

My problem with new AI is it makes drone boats useless to solo in. Some of us don't like to play a video game with the likes of you.

Also I tried using a target painter on a group. They still went after the drones.

I used to love this game. Hell even when I wouldn't play I would still pay my subscription. Now the game feels soft. A whole lot of hand holding is going on. Especially for any player with an account under a year old.

PLEX was the first mistake. There have been many since and they seem to be growing exponentially.

Good luck with something that used to be good TheGunslinger42. Be proud you are supporting the degradation of something that used to be special.
Benar Ellecon
Card games on MOTORCYCLES
#7 - 2013-04-12 16:26:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Benar Ellecon
My question here is what would YOU do if someone was fighting you and you got drones dumped on you? Would you not want to take care of them first since they would be causing more damage to you, or do you go for the drone ship itself? I believe that would be a choice of strategy and there usually are more than one way to do something. I don't have a problem with it as is, I just drop the drones, target a rat in a group and plow into them with my ship...they have no choice but to fight me when I am in their face! I don't let up so they tend to not be able to attack the drones as much. It seems to work just fine and I usually don't loose any drones in the process. Maybe you should think about changing your tactics and find out what works. I for one enjoy a challenge, and smarter AI is just that.
Just my 2 ISK on it...

Fly with your hair on FIRE!

Vindictive Force
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#8 - 2013-04-12 19:38:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Vindictive Force
Benar Ellecon wrote:
My question here is what would YOU do if someone was fighting you and you got drones dumped on you? Would you not want to take care of them first since they would be causing more damage to you, or do you go for the drone ship itself? I believe that would be a choice of strategy and there usually are more than one way to do something. I don't have a problem with it as is, I just drop the drones, target a rat in a group and plow into them with my ship...they have no choice but to fight me when I am in their face! I don't let up so they tend to not be able to attack the drones as much. It seems to work just fine and I usually don't loose any drones in the process. Maybe you should think about changing your tactics and find out what works. I for one enjoy a challenge, and smarter AI is just that.
Just my 2 ISK on it...



I have tried doing just that and for some reason they still lock drones instantly. Am I supposed to now go back and get into a frigate to kill the frigate ships because the 4 frigates in a room instantly lock and focus fire a single drone?

I can't make money doing missions anymore is the biggest problem. Even if I leave out the drones and loose a few that's still a 3mil hit on drones alone and that's if it's only light drones. I don't spend that much on T2 ammo in a mission.

Yes I agree with you that I would target drones first. Hell it's the first thing I do most of the time anyway. Even if they aren't a drone boat. But, I'm not fighting a player. Is there money to be made fighting a player? I mean real money. The chance modules will drop is too low and I don't do piracy.

This issue is just the issue that finally pushed me over the edge to complain. Yes I'm complaining and I make no reservations about it. It was complainers who brought this change about so I figure fight fire with fire.

I'm not saying make the AI dumb, but instead of all of the frigates locking and targeting one drone how about a couple to one drone and a couple to the other. At least then it would seem like the time I put into training Drone defense skills would count for something.

On a side note no I had no idea they were going to nerf T3 ships as well. I can't really say that it surprises me. The trend is to get more low level players in so they can buy plex.

Just dump plex for **** sake. It's making the high level characters useless in terms of balance. Trying to balance out the fact that high level characters can just pay for their sub by afk running. Dump plex and all that changes. Prices on ships will go back up as they should. People will have to earn their keep instead of just playing a game basically for free.

I'm mainly pissed because for the most part the people like me who still paid for a subscription where the ones paying for the "Expansions". Even though that isn't what they are anymore.

In the end it seems like everywhere I go they loyal get screwed. CCP doesn't listen to the player anymore, they listen to whiners. So that's what I'm doing. I'm whining till I get some positive results. Because as the twit from earlier said "Waaaaah" it's not the way I want it so change an entire game just for little old me.
Andracin
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2013-04-13 17:35:18 UTC
Ive been running level 4 missions on my alt partially to see what all the fuss is about. I used an SNI with no ewar and hob II's. Over the last week Ive lost 5 drones to a combination of negligence on my part or because if a rat is almost dead sometimes I'll just let the drone die. It might cut into mission profits but 1 bs rat later the drone is paid for.

From my observations sending drones more than 15-20km from your ship is turning them into kamakazis. When they get aggro, and they will, they will die before they get back to your ship. I usually wait until the little buggers are looking in my windshield before I put the hobs out. Soon as I get a red drone health bar I yank in and re-deploy soon as I have all red-boxes on me.

Some missions seem to be worse than others, for some reason sancha seem to especially hate drones in my experience, not sure if that is just a fluke or not. Also although drones are supposed to be targeted by size yesterday I had a rat in a cyclone trying to shoot my hob II. Not sure what was up with that but I managed to get it back in safely. Frigate rats are usually my last priority clearing rooms and I can tank them indefinitly so having to recall a couple times is not a deal breaker.

All in all missions are still a fast means to earn decent isk with virtually no risk at all. I'll take the "reality" of rats shooting drones over the "reality" of what would happen if I actually jumped my SNI into 10 dramiels, 8 cynabals, 6 cyclones and 5 machariels. Maybe CCP should put realistic fits on mission rats...
Vindictive Force
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#10 - 2013-04-15 21:25:39 UTC
Andracin wrote:
Ive been running level 4 missions on my alt partially to see what all the fuss is about. I used an SNI with no ewar and hob II's. Over the last week Ive lost 5 drones to a combination of negligence on my part or because if a rat is almost dead sometimes I'll just let the drone die. It might cut into mission profits but 1 bs rat later the drone is paid for.

From my observations sending drones more than 15-20km from your ship is turning them into kamakazis. When they get aggro, and they will, they will die before they get back to your ship. I usually wait until the little buggers are looking in my windshield before I put the hobs out. Soon as I get a red drone health bar I yank in and re-deploy soon as I have all red-boxes on me.

Some missions seem to be worse than others, for some reason sancha seem to especially hate drones in my experience, not sure if that is just a fluke or not. Also although drones are supposed to be targeted by size yesterday I had a rat in a cyclone trying to shoot my hob II. Not sure what was up with that but I managed to get it back in safely. Frigate rats are usually my last priority clearing rooms and I can tank them indefinitly so having to recall a couple times is not a deal breaker.

All in all missions are still a fast means to earn decent isk with virtually no risk at all. I'll take the "reality" of rats shooting drones over the "reality" of what would happen if I actually jumped my SNI into 10 dramiels, 8 cynabals, 6 cyclones and 5 machariels. Maybe CCP should put realistic fits on mission rats...


Doesn't that seem a little ineffective to you? I mean by having to wait for them to be in your face. What is the point of having all the done modules to extend control range? Not to mention the time it takes a BS to get into that position. Half the time I try and do that if I'm not shooting at them they run away if I slow down. So basically if I'm not charging in they turn tail.

Isn't the point of a drone ship to sit off 80km away and slow boat to the gate while the drones do the dirty work? That's the point of other BS is to sit at a good clip away. Am I perceiving this wrong? Are we not going to have two different styles of play anymore? Well more than two, but these are the main. Is it headed in the direction of up close and the way of the sniper BS, or any class ship for that matter, is going to be a thing of the past?

This has gone beyond my original question, but it's still prevalent to the matter at hand. Which has moved on from a simple mission AI issue to a deeper degradation of a once spectacular game.
Litair
Nleesh
#11 - 2013-04-20 14:46:53 UTC
I would like to agree with the OP. It makes sense that they would target your drones.. but it just feels so bothersome and often quite unfair as well, even though I know you'll have a lot of fun trolling me on that one.
I find that lag is really a big issue now. In the old days it didn't really matter so much that commanding drones would have a few seconds delay. Now however by the time the drone health bar has updated correctly and your order to make it retreat goes through, it's entirely possible that your drone will have been blown up. Managing drones in general just feels really clunky and ineffective.

So basically I can see the reasoning behind the new AI, but I really think it's necessary to make controlling the drones much more responsive and tight, so you can actually react properly to the changing aggro and such.

Alternatively (or also) there could be added drones specifically for being more tanky and attempt to draw aggro away from your squishy dps drones, but of course dealing less damage in turn. Just to try and give people different ways to roll with their drones.. Rather than having one single way to do it, which is as Andracin described.

Brisco County
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#12 - 2013-04-21 04:29:48 UTC
Use sentries.
Jeanne-Luise Argenau
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2013-05-11 12:03:00 UTC
i flown missions alot and tested the new ai too. i was a drone user, i nearly never use them now. i kill frigs first because they scramb and web which is annoying when u fly low tank high dps and u rly have to get out. but the problem is not the ai its the
drones overall (worst mission i was watching my hob II like a hawk and still lost 13 of themEvilEvilEvilEvilEvil).