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Better booster?

Author
Sir janko
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2013-04-09 11:56:15 UTC
What can put out higher boost, looking at a Tengu VS the Vulture it would be a system booster not being used or combat. also looking for some T2 fits.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2013-04-09 11:57:49 UTC
with the impending nerf to OGB I would advise you to start learning how to pvp properly with your booster actually on grid and fitted properly (ie not a bunch of command procs, links and fitting mods)
John Ratcliffe
Tradors'R'us
IChooseYou Alliance
#3 - 2013-04-09 12:10:37 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
with the impending nerf to OGB I would advise you to start learning how to pvp properly with your booster actually on grid and fitted properly (ie not a bunch of command procs, links and fitting mods)


The rumoured nerf, about which we have no detail. It's too early to say what CCP might do. Given many people run 2nd accounts just for OGB, I doubt they'll want to lose the revenue they will if they nerf it too hard.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

Kosetzu
The Black Crow Bandits
Northern Coalition.
#4 - 2013-04-09 13:29:07 UTC
As of right now the Tengu has the highest boost percentage, but after the first balance pass the Vulture will be on the top for two of the four link types (there's a dev blog about that). Remember they are making all CS the same in efficiency at boosting, so the Nighthawk will actually be good at it as well.

As for what happens when CCP finally manages to make it on-grid only... That is too far down the road for any guesses, though brick tanking a Command Ship is probably best around the time.
Hakaimono
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2013-04-09 14:11:06 UTC
Kosetzu wrote:
As of right now the Tengu has the highest boost percentage, but after the first balance pass the Vulture will be on the top for two of the four link types (there's a dev blog about that). Remember they are making all CS the same in efficiency at boosting, so the Nighthawk will actually be good at it as well.

As for what happens when CCP finally manages to make it on-grid only... That is too far down the road for any guesses, though brick tanking a Command Ship is probably best around the time.

At that point, the Damnation will be the choice with its insane tank potential.
Kalihira
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#6 - 2013-04-09 14:58:59 UTC
Hakaimono wrote:
Kosetzu wrote:
As of right now the Tengu has the highest boost percentage, but after the first balance pass the Vulture will be on the top for two of the four link types (there's a dev blog about that). Remember they are making all CS the same in efficiency at boosting, so the Nighthawk will actually be good at it as well.

As for what happens when CCP finally manages to make it on-grid only... That is too far down the road for any guesses, though brick tanking a Command Ship is probably best around the time.

At that point, the Damnation will be the choice with its insane tank potential.


which ccp allready stated they will nerf...
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2013-04-09 15:24:29 UTC
John Ratcliffe wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
with the impending nerf to OGB I would advise you to start learning how to pvp properly with your booster actually on grid and fitted properly (ie not a bunch of command procs, links and fitting mods)


The rumoured nerf, about which we have no detail. It's too early to say what CCP might do. Given many people run 2nd accounts just for OGB, I doubt they'll want to lose the revenue they will if they nerf it too hard.


CCP said they will nerf it when they find a way to code it

It's not a rumour, it's a matter of time.
Aralieus
Shadowbane Syndicate
#8 - 2013-04-09 18:10:03 UTC
As Tsukino Stareine put it, it's only a matter of time and thank the gods for that. OGB is a terrible meta game that has hurt more than help. AFAIK the T3's will recieve a 2% on boosting but be able to fit more links while CS's will have 3% with less links fitted.

Oderint Dum Metuant

Steel Roamer
Southern Baptist Space Warrior Collective.
V0IDLINGS
#9 - 2013-04-09 19:03:44 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
with the impending nerf to OGB I would advise you to start learning how to pvp properly with your booster actually on grid and fitted properly (ie not a bunch of command procs, links and fitting mods)



Most pilots with OGBs know how to PvP.

We just sometimes find ourselves PvPing against 7 people.

And sometimes my booster alt (This toon in-fact.) makes it a little more fair.




Sadly CCP prefers blobs over solo/small gang due to subscription revenue, so this toon might find itself biomassed + unsubbed since it will be worthless post-nerf.
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#10 - 2013-04-09 19:31:12 UTC
Steel Roamer wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
with the impending nerf to OGB I would advise you to start learning how to pvp properly with your booster actually on grid and fitted properly (ie not a bunch of command procs, links and fitting mods)



Most pilots with OGBs know how to PvP.

We just sometimes find ourselves PvPing against 7 people.

And sometimes my booster alt (This toon in-fact.) makes it a little more fair.




Sadly CCP prefers blobs over solo/small gang due to subscription revenue, so this toon might find itself biomassed + unsubbed since it will be worthless post-nerf.

Well that's a stupid argument. Most blobs I see have a booster of their own, if not multiple boosters. Fat lot of good one booster will do you, huh?
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2013-04-09 21:47:02 UTC
Steel Roamer wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
with the impending nerf to OGB I would advise you to start learning how to pvp properly with your booster actually on grid and fitted properly (ie not a bunch of command procs, links and fitting mods)



Most pilots with OGBs know how to PvP.

We just sometimes find ourselves PvPing against 7 people.

And sometimes my booster alt (This toon in-fact.) makes it a little more fair.




Sadly CCP prefers blobs over solo/small gang due to subscription revenue, so this toon might find itself biomassed + unsubbed since it will be worthless post-nerf.


most pilots with OGBs know how to pvp, with boosts.

They factor that into the equation when they decide whether or not they can engage and win or not.

When OGB is removed you will simply have to factor in the fact your boosts can be removed, which is the way it should be.
Steel Roamer
Southern Baptist Space Warrior Collective.
V0IDLINGS
#12 - 2013-04-09 22:48:08 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
Steel Roamer wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
with the impending nerf to OGB I would advise you to start learning how to pvp properly with your booster actually on grid and fitted properly (ie not a bunch of command procs, links and fitting mods)



Most pilots with OGBs know how to PvP.

We just sometimes find ourselves PvPing against 7 people.

And sometimes my booster alt (This toon in-fact.) makes it a little more fair.




Sadly CCP prefers blobs over solo/small gang due to subscription revenue, so this toon might find itself biomassed + unsubbed since it will be worthless post-nerf.


most pilots with OGBs know how to pvp, with boosts.

They factor that into the equation when they decide whether or not they can engage and win or not.

When OGB is removed you will simply have to factor in the fact your boosts can be removed, which is the way it should be.



I also know how to PvP without boosts.
Your argument that I do not lacks any amount of evidence.

Characters and Boosting ships cost ISK and SP.
The same applies to Faction Gear, T2, and Ship/Skill bonuses.

If you are not willing to spend 9b+ on character + boosting ship, then you will not get the bonus.

You are free to earn that isk and buy one though. Nothing holding you back, except the excuses you continue to make.
Steel Roamer
Southern Baptist Space Warrior Collective.
V0IDLINGS
#13 - 2013-04-09 23:20:41 UTC
Goldensaver wrote:
Steel Roamer wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
with the impending nerf to OGB I would advise you to start learning how to pvp properly with your booster actually on grid and fitted properly (ie not a bunch of command procs, links and fitting mods)



Most pilots with OGBs know how to PvP.

We just sometimes find ourselves PvPing against 7 people.

And sometimes my booster alt (This toon in-fact.) makes it a little more fair.




Sadly CCP prefers blobs over solo/small gang due to subscription revenue, so this toon might find itself biomassed + unsubbed since it will be worthless post-nerf.

Well that's a stupid argument. Most blobs I see have a booster of their own, if not multiple boosters. Fat lot of good one booster will do you, huh?

So you propose that only the Blob is allowed to have a booster?
Funny how on one hand everyone says solo-pvp is dead because of blobs and links, and on the other everyone is A-OK with giving more advantages to blobs. Pick one please.
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#14 - 2013-04-10 00:22:55 UTC
Steel Roamer wrote:
Goldensaver wrote:
Steel Roamer wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
with the impending nerf to OGB I would advise you to start learning how to pvp properly with your booster actually on grid and fitted properly (ie not a bunch of command procs, links and fitting mods)



Most pilots with OGBs know how to PvP.

We just sometimes find ourselves PvPing against 7 people.

And sometimes my booster alt (This toon in-fact.) makes it a little more fair.




Sadly CCP prefers blobs over solo/small gang due to subscription revenue, so this toon might find itself biomassed + unsubbed since it will be worthless post-nerf.

Well that's a stupid argument. Most blobs I see have a booster of their own, if not multiple boosters. Fat lot of good one booster will do you, huh?

So you propose that only the Blob is allowed to have a booster?
Funny how on one hand everyone says solo-pvp is dead because of blobs and links, and on the other everyone is A-OK with giving more advantages to blobs. Pick one please.


No, I'm not proposing that. First of all, I'm thinking about how incredibly naive you must be if you think your OGB gives you any advantage over a blob, considering that if you, one single person can have your own personal off grid booster, that a blob can't find one among them that has an off grid booster (unless you're preying on newbs who think their small electron blaster raven is the best thing since sliced bread).

Second of all, I'm all in favor of risk versus reward, something you appear to be averse to. Perhaps if you want your precious investment protected, you should play another game. EVE isn't the game for you if you think you should be getting so much effectiveness, so much reward for so little, if not absolutely no risk.

Consider, for a second, just how much effectiveness a single Loki booster gives. Using a basic web/point/prop ship as a base line.

Using an Omen with a similar fit to what I fly as a baseline, with web/disruptor/AB, compared to an Omen with a fed navy web/RF warp disruptor/gistum A-type 10mn AB.

The T2 fit omen with loki links gets: higher range on the disruptor, higher range on the web, and higher speed, in addition to 1 second more cap life (no tradeoff there), and the priceless bonus of a substantially smaller signature radius. In exchange, it takes a bit more heat damage.

The difference in cost? over 700m. How much does the Loki I used to boost this T2 Omen cost? ~400m isk, with a 170m implant. That means that both of those together, with even the pod of the Loki counted in, the T2 Omen was MORE effective than the pimped Omen, and the T2 Omen and the Loki together cost less than the Pimp Omen.

And that's just one one ship. Lets say that you have for example five Omens. The cost of five pimp omens is ~3.5b. The cost of five T2 Omens, and the Loki booster boosting the fleet is altogether around 150m + ~700m for a total of under 1b.

And lets actually guess how much was risked? About 150m for the Omens.

Now, this isn't the perfect example. And this isn't all exact. But for each ship you boost, you're giving a massive improvement in effectiveness that would normally have cost an incredible amount per ship.

And lets look at the risk. You're risking absolutely nothing if you have your booster safed up in a POS. You're risking the booster, but only if you're stupid *AND* if they've paid substantially more than the booster's worth on a perfect scanning alt if it's cloaked in a safe until you need the boosts. You're stupid if it's always uncloaked and giving boosts while you pay absolutely no attention to it.

The risk is minimal, but for each ship you boost the reward is massive. By putting boosters on grid, they're actually enforcing the risk versus reward policy. And sure, the solo player won't be able to bring their booster on grid, but the fleet will. Sure, that's a buff to blobs. But at least they'll have the pair to actually ******* RISK THEIR BOOSTER SHIP.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2013-04-10 00:59:06 UTC
Goldensaver wrote:
But at least they'll have the pair to actually ******* RISK THEIR BOOSTER SHIP.


This is the point of nerfing OGB

all reward, no risk.

Understand now, Steel?
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#16 - 2013-04-10 02:09:44 UTC
You should also realize that CCP postponed nerfing OGB due to legacy code and the technical difficulties involved in implementing on grid boosters. So the OGB nerf is coming Soon(tm). We'll probably see the cap rebalance, the pos overhaul, and more than a few new ships added before the ogb nerf.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2013-04-10 02:12:44 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
You should also realize that CCP postponed nerfing OGB due to legacy code and the technical difficulties involved in implementing on grid boosters. So the OGB nerf is coming Soon(tm). We'll probably see the cap rebalance, the pos overhaul, and more than a few new ships added before the ogb nerf.


and you know this because you're a CCP developer assigned to this particular project am I right?
Mister Tuggles
Heretic Army
Sedition.
#18 - 2013-04-10 09:43:33 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
with the impending nerf to OGB I would advise you to start learning how to pvp properly with your booster actually on grid and fitted properly (ie not a bunch of command procs, links and fitting mods)



Boosting should be changed to give the % of the boost based on how close you are to the ship you are wanting to give them go. I.e. 100% at 50km<, 75% at 51-100km, 50% past that.

Then you would have to have CCP completely change command ships or t3's to make them viable at running a few links AND combat. As it stands now you can't really do more than one link without gimping yourself horribly for combat.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#19 - 2013-04-10 10:03:36 UTC
Back on topic:

The Tengu currently has the higher bonus, although the difference isn't great (The Tengu will give 1.08 points of boost for every 1 point the Vulture gives).

The Vulture can be fitted to carry more links, if I recall correctly - this can be quite nice if you're only going to be able to have 1 fleet booster, since even if all you're doing is shield tanking, being able to give a sig reduction and a speed boost will increase the effective tank. A boost to sensor strength can also be very useful if you're shooting Guristas. A Vulture which can run 6 links, which I think is possible might have better actual utility than a Tengu which only runs 3 or 4.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Kain Duku
LoGisTicAl ERr0R
#20 - 2013-04-10 11:24:39 UTC
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