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CCP: RE: Monthlly Plexing Bittervets
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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#1 - 2011-10-31 11:58:07 UTC
CCP, during our recent troubles, a number of upset people cancelled their recurring subscriptions and switched to using PLEX to pay each month as it rolled around, if they could be bothered doing so.

While I'm aware that paying by PLEX gives CCP a slightly higher monthly income, does CCP place any greater value on a paid-in-advance subscription? Was there any significant number of accounts that switched from recurring subscription to PLEX?

In the event that the Winter expansion blows us out of the water with sheer awesome, would resubscribing for 6/12 months be better/worse (gooder/badder?) for CCP than simply continuing to activate accounts through PLEX?

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Twisted Alice
Doomheim
#2 - 2011-10-31 12:01:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Twisted Alice
They actually make more from the PLEX.

Edit: companies always like to have money in advance, it's also non refundable if you decide to play something else.
JC Anderson
RED ROSE THORN
#3 - 2011-10-31 13:19:03 UTC  |  Edited by: JC Anderson
Twisted Alice wrote:
They actually make more from the PLEX.

Edit: companies always like to have money in advance, it's also non refundable if you decide to play something else.


Yeah but for some reason people seem to think switching to PLEX is a punishment to CCP because they do not make income off of its sale.

Which is not the case at all.

I can only assume that those under that impression seem to think PLEX is seeded to the market by CCP and not realize that your buying it from a player that already used real world money to attain it.

The other issue when it comes to them having the chance to make more off PLEX is the fact that it can be destroyed. And when that happens, whoever planned to use that particular PLEX then has to replace it by buying another.
Valerius Constantine
Constantine Interstellar Shipment Services
#4 - 2011-10-31 13:26:32 UTC
JC Anderson wrote:
Twisted Alice wrote:
They actually make more from the PLEX.

Edit: companies always like to have money in advance, it's also non refundable if you decide to play something else.


Yeah but for some reason people seem to think switching to PLEX is a punishment to CCP because they do not make income off of its sale.

Which is not the case at all.

I can only assume that those under that impression seem to think PLEX is seeded to the market by CCP and not realize that your buying it from a player that already used real world money to attain it.

The other issue when it comes to them having the chance to make more off PLEX is the fact that it can be destroyed. And when that happens, whoever planned to use that particular PLEX then has to replace it by buying another.


Players being... less than smart, per usual. I'm sure you know this :)
Jack Dant
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
#5 - 2011-10-31 13:32:23 UTC
Valerius Constantine wrote:
JC Anderson wrote:

Yeah but for some reason people seem to think switching to PLEX is a punishment to CCP because they do not make income off of its sale.

Which is not the case at all.

I can only assume that those under that impression seem to think PLEX is seeded to the market by CCP and not realize that your buying it from a player that already used real world money to attain it.

The other issue when it comes to them having the chance to make more off PLEX is the fact that it can be destroyed. And when that happens, whoever planned to use that particular PLEX then has to replace it by buying another.


Players being... less than smart, per usual. I'm sure you know this :)

Very true :) But keep in mind, some of us switched to PLEX not to punish CCP, but because we couldn't be bothered to spend real cash on EVE anymore.

What happens in lowsec, stays in lowsec, lowering the barrier to entry to lowsec PVP: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=476644&#post476644
Rakshasa Taisab
Sane Industries Inc.
#6 - 2011-10-31 13:42:35 UTC
People switching to PLEX hurts CCP cause it leads to higher prices and thus less people willing to keep alts running.

Nyan
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#7 - 2011-10-31 14:05:45 UTC
I'm actually glad to hear that PLEX makes more RL ISK for CCP. Sounds like a real win / win... I get subbed out a couple years without spending my dollars and CCP somehow magically makes money (I guess people buy PLEX w/ dollars? Blink)... That sounds capital! I don't see a problem here...

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#8 - 2011-10-31 14:26:34 UTC
[Censored]

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude
JC Anderson
RED ROSE THORN
#9 - 2011-10-31 14:30:21 UTC  |  Edited by: JC Anderson
Gogela wrote:
I'm actually glad to hear that PLEX makes more RL ISK for CCP. Sounds like a real win / win... I get subbed out a couple years without spending my dollars and CCP somehow magically makes money (I guess people buy PLEX w/ dollars? Blink)... That sounds capital! I don't see a problem here...


The more people willing to buy plex via ISK drives the demand up.

This results in more people buying PLEX with their real world money to sell on the market. The result is more money for CCP. ;)

Every PLEX purchased was at one point already paid for in real money.

Rakshasa Taisab wrote:
People switching to PLEX hurts CCP cause it leads to higher prices and thus less people willing to keep alts running.


While I might agree with that in any normal market, there really doesn't seem to be a shortage of people in this game with enough ISK to throw into jacked up PLEX prices.
Amro One
One.
#10 - 2011-10-31 14:30:44 UTC
Your not a bittervet if you have to ask such a question.

Fail.
Pesky LaRue
Mercatoris
#11 - 2011-10-31 15:34:34 UTC
JC Anderson wrote:
Gogela wrote:
I'm actually glad to hear that PLEX makes more RL ISK for CCP. Sounds like a real win / win... I get subbed out a couple years without spending my dollars and CCP somehow magically makes money (I guess people buy PLEX w/ dollars? Blink)... That sounds capital! I don't see a problem here...


The more people willing to buy plex via ISK drives the demand up.

This results in more people buying PLEX with their real world money to sell on the market. The result is more money for CCP. ;)

Every PLEX purchased was at one point already paid for in real money.

Rakshasa Taisab wrote:
People switching to PLEX hurts CCP cause it leads to higher prices and thus less people willing to keep alts running.


While I might agree with that in any normal market, there really doesn't seem to be a shortage of people in this game with enough ISK to throw into jacked up PLEX prices.

nice summary - it's hard to believe people STILL don't get this and need to have it spoon fed to them. I have lost track of the number of threads along the lines of "well, I'll show CCP, I'll just let someone else pay them with real cash and then I can delude myself into thinking using plex will put them out of business!"
I Accidentally YourShip
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2011-10-31 15:52:59 UTC
Lets not forget as price rises for PLEX it becomes more attractive to people to buy GTCs and sell them for ISK. Everything balances unless there is some really ugly wrench thrown in the system that is not usual to day to day operation. I can't really think of any method that would cause a permanent damage to the PLEX market that a player could do.
Sir HappyPants
Caldari Innovations and Research
#13 - 2011-10-31 16:00:46 UTC
During all the protests, I am one of the bitter vets who switched to PLEX payment. I had 6 accounts, unsubbed 4 and kept 2. The 4 unsubs all had the mains sold off on character bazaar.

I do not think that I am "punishing" CCP for switching over to PLEX. I just know at the time (and currently) Eve Online is not worth $15.99 per month per account to me. Winter xpac will hopefully change this. Since cash flow is not an issue for me, I changed over to PLEX, and it appears a lot of others did as well. (Judging by the trend in PLEX prices.) As I have said in a previous thread, if PLEX prices get too much more expensive my remaining 2 accounts will lapse until I feel the game is worth me investing my own, real money into. Until then, I'll use my imaginary space bucks that have no real world value anyways.
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Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#14 - 2011-10-31 16:21:05 UTC
The real-world economies of every country are troubled, some worse than others.
People who up to now have bought say, 6 PLEX for (x) Dollars can no longer afford to do so.
They now buy maybe 2 PLEX.

How can that possibly be good for CCP ?

On top of that, economies are not improving, they are in fact getting worse and heading for recessions.
So again, who's going to be able to afford to buy so much PLEX using real-world cash ?

You keep going on and on about "oh it's already paid for by someone else, so CCP wins"
The cash-cows are spreading their real-life funds thinner and thinner folks.

Sir HappyPants is one classic example of what has happened and will continue happening.

Who's going to be buying PLEX for cash in 6 months time, 8 months time ? Where is CCP getting it's much-needed income from ? Fire more staff ? Make buying PLEX cheaper ? Make Subs cheaper ?

Oh but I forget, PLEX - "It's paid for by someone else already so CCP wins"

Someone else is tightening their purse strings.

I used to spend cash to buy 4 PLEX on a monthly basis. Two would be sold ingame for ISK, another two I would use to pay for subscription costs.

I have the same job in real life, decent salary, nothing has changed there. However, the economy is going down the drain, forcing me to spend less on my entertainment budget. This is true for many other players.

Yet you go on "Someone else paid for it so CCP wins"

Different thread, same story being repeated.

COO - Bene Gesserit Chapterhouse  CEO - Sanctuary Pact Alliance
Sir HappyPants
Caldari Innovations and Research
#15 - 2011-10-31 16:32:49 UTC
Thorn, my using PLEX is in no way a real life cash flow problem in my part. I make good money both in game and in real life. So don't drag me into your completely wrong and flawed argument. I posted in the other thread as did others on how wrong you are, yet you still refuse to see it. You tell others to open their minds to your side of the argument, perhaps it is *you* who needs to open your mind.

PLEX = CCP got paid.
Monthly Sub = CCP got paid.

Simple.
Member of the #TweetFleet   @thisurlnotfound
Lens Thirring
#16 - 2011-10-31 16:45:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Lens Thirring
While it's true that cash-for-PLEX purchases are more profitable for CCP over time, it is still possible for there to be some serious short-term consequences if there are significant moves towards paying for game-time via PLEX.

The trouble is, the PLEX might have been created 6 months or 2 years ago and that money already spent. There are a number of real-world circumstances where "cash last month" can be very different from "cash today" or "cash next month".

If people switched from creating PLEX towards spending the existing stockpiles to pay for their accounts, that could create a (temporary) cash drought for CCP which is even larger than the effect of subscription falloff, at least until the stockpiles dry up.

It's interesting that the events of the summer had no effect on the volume of PLEX traded in Jita, which might at first seem like a positive sign. But if we consider that there is a reduced player population (CCP have said 8%, I think), that actually indicates a hidden increase in the consumption of PLEX by the remaining population. Maybe all of these people are buying monocles.

But a more gloomy interpretation could be that in addition to 8% of people leaving the game, an additional 8% decided to convert their subscriptions to PLEX, giving a total 16% drop in CCP income over the last few months - the months directly before an October meeting with bankers to refinance their loan.

And once the PLEX stockpiles dry up, will those PLEXers convert back to cash, or just disappear? In other words, is the cash drought really temporary, or is it actually an extra decline in players who are willing to pay cash for Eve, hidden among the PLEXers?

As long as people are creating and destroying PLEX at a steady rate, CCP does profit from PLEX when integrated over time. But if the stockpiles of PLEX are used up irregularly, I imagine this can still cause short-term headaches which keep CCP's accountants up at night.
Sir HappyPants
Caldari Innovations and Research
#17 - 2011-10-31 16:50:18 UTC
Lens Thirring wrote:
While it's true that cash-for-PLEX purchases are more profitable for CCP over time, it is still possible for there to be some serious short-term consequences if there are significant moves towards paying for game-time via PLEX.

The trouble is, the PLEX might have been created 6 months or 2 years ago and that money already spent. There are a number of real-world circumstances where "cash last month" can be very different from "cash today" or "cash next month".

If people switched from creating PLEX towards spending the existing stockpiles to pay for their accounts, that could create a (temporary) cash drought for CCP which is even larger than the effect of subscription falloff, at least until the stockpiles dry up.

It's interesting that the events of the summer had no effect on the volume of PLEX traded in Jita, which might at first seem like a positive sign. But if we consider that there is a reduced player population (CCP have said 8%, I think), that actually indicates a hidden increase in the consumption of PLEX by the remaining population. Maybe all of these people are buying monocles.

But a more gloomy interpretation could be that in addition to 8% of people leaving the game, an additional 8% decided to convert their subscriptions to PLEX, giving a total 16% drop in CCP income over the last few months - the months directly before an October meeting with bankers to refinance their loan.

And once the PLEX stockpiles dry up, will those PLEXers convert back to cash, or just disappear? In other words, is the cash drought really temporary, or is it actually an extra decline in players who are willing to pay cash to for Eve, hidden among the PLEXers?

As long as people are creating and destroying PLEX at a steady rate, CCP does profit from PLEX when integrated over time. But if the stockpiles of PLEX are used up irregularly, I imagine this can still cause short-term headaches which keep CCP's accountants up at night.


Ok, if this is what Thorn Galen was getting on about, then I will agree. People sitting on mountains of PLEX that are months (years?) old, then that could certainly pose a problem for CCP if all those PLEX are dumped onto the market and converted into game time.

Perhaps CCP might think about making some sort of expiration date on the PLEX. Say, sitting in a hanger of a subbed account for 90 days = poof? Unsubbed accounts could still keep a plex to resub and subbed accounts will be forced to sell/use the PLEX before the end of a quarter. (I know the idea has flaws, I'm just spit balling.)
Member of the #TweetFleet   @thisurlnotfound
Vaffel Junior
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2011-10-31 16:57:27 UTC
cmon now ppl ..... buy plex on eveonline.com
I need your plex for my 3 remaining alts Cool
Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#19 - 2011-10-31 17:18:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Thorn Galen
Sir HappyPants wrote:
Thorn, my using PLEX is in no way a real life cash flow problem in my part. I make good money both in game and in real life. So don't drag me into your completely wrong and flawed argument. I posted in the other thread as did others on how wrong you are, yet you still refuse to see it. You tell others to open their minds to your side of the argument, perhaps it is *you* who needs to open your mind.

PLEX = CCP got paid.
Monthly Sub = CCP got paid.

Simple.


You may be happy and comfortable in that recession is not affecting your purchases. You cannot place everyone else in the same boat. I said that many people with ready cash are spending less. They'd rather buy food and fuel than a PLEX. Not everyone appears to be as well off as you make yourself out to be.

Completely wrong and flawed ? You and others still do not get the picture - that of reality affecting real-life and therefore decisions on what to do with real-life cash. You're just assuming that people will continue paying for PLEX with real money in sufficient amounts that will keep your version of the ingame accounts going.

Maybe you can, but not all and the real world economy is not improving, making people tighten their purses. So again, open your mind to the realities. I'm not trying to denegrate anyone, I'm stating real-life facts.

COO - Bene Gesserit Chapterhouse  CEO - Sanctuary Pact Alliance
De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2011-10-31 17:29:49 UTC
Thorn Galen wrote:

Completely wrong and flawed ? You and others still do not get the picture - that of reality affecting real-life and therefore decisions on what to do with real-life cash. You're just assuming that people will continue paying for PLEX with real money in sufficient amounts that will keep your version of the ingame accounts going.


The evidence thus far indicates that people are, in fact, willing to continue purchasing plex for resale.

Granted that may change if the overall world enconomy takes a real ****-bath, but in general, as PLEX prices rise, more people will be tempted to purchase them for resale due to their higher ISK value.

There may indeed come a tipping point where the supply of PLEX drops off so drastically that not everyone that wants one can even find one, regardless of the cost - but we're certainly not there yet.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
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