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Why risk versus reward doesn't matter
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Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#401 - 2013-04-08 17:05:40 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:



Much like a hammer, used to bash things, can be used to screw something in. But not what it's intended for.

And a hammer is not defined by it's ability to turn a screw. But you CAN use it for that use. Even though a screwdriver would be far more efficient.

Such as Concord and any implication of protection.

So again, Concord is not a Protector. It's a concept in relation to risk versus reward in regards to following highsec's rules.


Its protection as defined by every single government, army, police force and security sevice.


It stops us bad guys from killing everything, which is the very meaning of protecting people and like all protection it wont stop everything.



So when did Concord ever shield or rep or help any one pilot? Never. They blow up the aggressor. They don't care about the victim.

Again, shoot an aseteroid in highsec tell me what happens.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#402 - 2013-04-08 17:09:01 UTC
Murk wrote:



So when did Concord ever shield or rep or help any one pilot? Never. They blow up the aggressor. They don't care about the victim.

Again, shoot an aseteroid in highsec tell me what happens.


They dont have to rep anyone to help. Just being there ready to pounce is vastly more helpfull.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#403 - 2013-04-08 17:10:58 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
So when did Concord ever shield or rep or help any one pilot? Never. They blow up the aggressor. They don't care about the victim.

And yet, they provide protection. Undock an empty hauler from jita and see what happens, then compare that with undocking the same empty hauler from a lowsec station with lots of neutral people sitting right outside, and/or with undocking from a nullsec station with lots of neutral people sitting right outside.

What you'll find is that you won't die in hisec, whereas you will in lowsec and nullsec, because concord protects through deterrence.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#404 - 2013-04-08 17:18:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Murk Paradox
Lord Zim wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
So when did Concord ever shield or rep or help any one pilot? Never. They blow up the aggressor. They don't care about the victim.

And yet, they provide protection. Undock an empty hauler from jita and see what happens, then compare that with undocking the same empty hauler from a lowsec station with lots of neutral people sitting right outside, and/or with undocking from a nullsec station with lots of neutral people sitting right outside.

What you'll find is that you won't die in hisec, whereas you will in lowsec and nullsec, because concord protects through deterrence.



That empty hauler is the level or protection, gained through risk vs reward since anytime you are in a hauler near a trade hub you'd be naive to think you haven't been scanned down.

If I left Jita with an empty hauler chances are I would not be ganked.

If I left Jita with a hauler worth 10bil, chances are I would be ganked.

Both scenarios involve Concord.

The level of me determining the reward using an empty hauler is a form of protection of deterrence.

Concord doesn't factor in at that point. Those pirates would assume death already.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Lady Areola Fappington
#405 - 2013-04-08 17:20:18 UTC
kind of like my grandpappy said, "locks keep honest people honest"

CONCORD does the same.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#406 - 2013-04-08 17:22:21 UTC
the pirates are still deterred if their potential gain is less than the loss they calculate.

forums.  serious business.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#407 - 2013-04-08 17:23:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Lord Zim
Murk Paradox wrote:
That empty hauler is the level or protection, gained through risk vs reward since anytime you are in a hauler near a trade hub you'd be naive to think you haven't been scanned down.

So which part of the hauler would stop you from being ganked? Its tank? Its dps?

Oh wait, no, it's because concord is deterring gankers from ganking you, i.e. you're protected by concord.

Murk Paradox wrote:
If I left Jita with an empty hauler chances are I would not be ganked.

Because concord protects you.

Murk Paradox wrote:
If I left Jita with a hauler worth 10bil, chances are I would be ganked.

Because while concord protects you, it's not a perfect protection. It doesn't have to be perfect protection to still be protection.

Murk Paradox wrote:
The level of me determining the reward using an empty hauler is a form of protection of deterrence.

Which part of the hauler provides deterrence?

I'll tell you, no part of the hauler itself provides any deterrence at all. The only protection through deterrence is emanating from concord.

Murk Paradox wrote:
Concord doesn't factor in at that point. Those pirates would assume death already.

Death by concord, yes. Concord protects through deterrence. Without concord, there would be no deterrence through certain death by concord, and thus no protection.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#408 - 2013-04-08 17:23:54 UTC
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
the pirates are still deterred if their potential gain is less than the loss they calculate.


Right, which is how freighter pilots "protect" themselves by not hauling to much expensive stuff, though they're ships can still be blown up for no reason at all.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#409 - 2013-04-08 17:25:30 UTC
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
kind of like my grandpappy said, "locks keep honest people honest"

CONCORD does the same.


Grandpappy is a smart dude. +1 .
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#410 - 2013-04-08 17:31:24 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Which part of the hauler provides deterrence?


Ammo cost?

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#411 - 2013-04-08 17:32:41 UTC
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
the pirates are still deterred if their potential gain is less than the loss they calculate.



Exactly.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#412 - 2013-04-08 17:33:43 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:

That empty hauler is the level or protection, gained through risk vs reward since anytime you are in a hauler near a trade hub you'd be naive to think you haven't been scanned down.

If I left Jita with an empty hauler chances are I would not be ganked.


And if you left Rancer with an Empty hauler, what do you think would happen to it?

Due to the absence of CONCORD, it would get ganked virtually every time.

With CONCORD > You Don't get ganked in an empty hauler.
Without CONCORD > You Do get ganked in an empty hauler.

Therefor, CONCORD protects you from gankers.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#413 - 2013-04-08 17:36:04 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
the pirates are still deterred if their potential gain is less than the loss they calculate.

Exactly.

And considering lowsec doesn't provide them with any instant losses for ganking anyone, that "empty hauler" ends up being a very, very juicy target which'll yield a nice killmail.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#414 - 2013-04-08 17:38:13 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
the pirates are still deterred if their potential gain is less than the loss they calculate.



Exactly.



And what does that deterrence (provided by CONCORD) provide to the potential targets? Protection.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#415 - 2013-04-08 17:39:35 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:

Death by concord, yes. Concord protects through deterrence. Without concord, there would be no deterrence through certain death by concord, and thus no protection.



You just literally made 0 sense.

Yes, it's true you would not die by Concord if Concord wasn't there. o_O

And the part of the hauler that protects is not its tank, but it's cargo hold. Anyone WILLING to gank, and lose a ship to Concord, will check and recheck and double check if it's worth it to gank that person. Be it for an idea, a payment, or a bounty.

Concord is a cost. Any form or idea of protection is already discarded by the mind of that opportunist.

I can orbit Jita or Dodixie with an empty bestower all day. You say I won't get blown up because Concord protects. I say it's because of the fact an empty bestower doesn't provide anything worth killing for. If I put just 20 plex in that bestower, how fast do you think I'd get blown up?

Let's re analyze that

Empty bestower with Concord = survive.
Notsoempty Bestower with Concord = ganked.

Any questions?

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#416 - 2013-04-08 17:40:59 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
the pirates are still deterred if their potential gain is less than the loss they calculate.



Exactly.



And what does that deterrence (provided by CONCORD) provide to the potential targets? Nothing if the pirate wants to kill you.


Fixed.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#417 - 2013-04-08 17:41:08 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
I can orbit Jita or Dodixie with an empty bestower all day.


Now try that somewhere without CONCORD and see what happens.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#418 - 2013-04-08 17:42:15 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
the pirates are still deterred if their potential gain is less than the loss they calculate.



Exactly.



And what does that deterrence (provided by CONCORD) provide to the potential targets? Protection


Fixed.


Getting them to not want to kill you for profit is the definition of deterrence. And that is the Protection that CONCORD provides.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#419 - 2013-04-08 17:42:22 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:

That empty hauler is the level or protection, gained through risk vs reward since anytime you are in a hauler near a trade hub you'd be naive to think you haven't been scanned down.

If I left Jita with an empty hauler chances are I would not be ganked.


And if you left Rancer with an Empty hauler, what do you think would happen to it?

Due to the absence of CONCORD, it would get ganked virtually every time.

With CONCORD > You Don't get ganked in an empty hauler.
Without CONCORD > You Do get ganked in an empty hauler.

Therefor, CONCORD protects you from gankers.


Rancer isn't highsec. This is risk versus reward. You wanting to roam around in a hauler in Rancer to which you said was a very busy and camped place, has nothing to do with Concord as it is lowsec and out of their jurisdiction.

Keep on topic please.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#420 - 2013-04-08 17:43:43 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
the pirates are still deterred if their potential gain is less than the loss they calculate.

Exactly.

And considering lowsec doesn't provide them with any instant losses for ganking anyone, that "empty hauler" ends up being a very, very juicy target which'll yield a nice killmail.



Empty haulers aren't very juicy. I have a ton of sigils and bestowers for moving PI stuff around because I am too lazy to spend the time moving them back and just buy a new hull.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.