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Insurance

Author
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2013-04-07 03:05:07 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Ace Uoweme wrote:
One look at EvE's history will tell you the truth.
Indeed it will:

“Ship insurance will now revalue itself periodically based on a trimmed mean of the ship's manufacturing materials global market weighted average prices. For more info, see The Circle of Life dev blog by CCP Chronotis.”

So no. Goons (or any other powerblock you're tinfoiling about) have SFA to do with the insurance you get from T2. The change you're asking for has already happened.


Yep, ate the tin foil wholesale...

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Technetium

Quote:
After the combined forces of OTEC (CFC, Pandemic Legion and NCDOT) collectively repelled a strike into PL Tech holdings by Against ALL Authorities and assorted southern forces with relative ease, it was decided that Hulkageddon (an event centered around the suicide ganking of Hulks) would go from a prize-based annual event organized by an assortment of suicide gank-loving volunteers to a permanent state of affairs with salaried rewards sorted by programs parsing through automatically generated killmail data. The motives for this were twofold: 1) the heavy amount of Technetium needed to build Hulks meant increased Hulk 'turnover' would send Tech prices through the roof and 2) the sheer infamy from doing such a thing.

By making the act of sucide ganking mining ships directly profitable with no coordination needed, Highsec space became an open hunting ground as hundreds of unaffiliated highsec pirates roamed the belts and jumpgates in disposable, high-damage ships looking for any mining vessel to put in their crosshairs. 'Hulkageddon Infinity', funded by Technetium profits, was by far the largest and most devastating event of its kind in New Eden history, as galactic mineral output as a whole took a massive drop as miners were simply too scared to mine.


As the saying goes: follow the money.

In EvE, follow the money and special interests who's "concern" is to protect both.

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#22 - 2013-04-07 03:11:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Ace Uoweme wrote:
As the saying goes: follow the money.
…and the money goes right back to the insurance changes made two and a half years ago. It goes nowhere near what you just posted and has SFA to do with any kind of powerblock.

Quote:
In EvE, follow the money and special interests who's "concern" is to protect both.
Too bad that no-one can “protect” insurance and that insurance protects everyone equally.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#23 - 2013-04-07 03:15:54 UTC
The Tech Cartel is irrelevant to the subject at hand because Tech is not included in the insurance payout calculation.

The price of it is easily manipulated, as proven by OPEC, who for the most part are the biggest proponents of Tech moons being nerfed, they did it because they could and to prove a point, while making a shitton of cash. That's half the attraction of Eve, coming up with innovative ways to screw other people.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2013-04-07 03:31:14 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
The Tech Cartel is irrelevant to the subject at hand because Tech is not included in the insurance payout calculation.


Which is THE problem.

And we're right back too...

Quote:
The motives for this were twofold: 1) the heavy amount of Technetium needed to build Hulks meant increased Hulk 'turnover' would send Tech prices through the roof


The game has been broken on this for years. It's about time for insurance to reflect reality.

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#25 - 2013-04-07 03:33:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Which is THE problem.
Not particularly, no — if it's not a problem to begin with, it can hardly be “the problem”.

Quote:
The game has been broken on this for years. It's about time for insurance to reflect reality.
It's not meant to. It really is that simple.
The insurance for T2 is low because it's designed to be low. It's designed to make losing T2 hurt. It being low has nothing to do with any kind of cartel, and the only way to influence downwards it is to do the exact opposite of what any kind of cartel would want (and of course, if a cartel wanted to influence insurance, they would want it to move upwards).
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#26 - 2013-04-07 03:46:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
The Tech Cartel is irrelevant to the subject at hand because Tech is not included in the insurance payout calculation.


Which is THE problem.

And we're right back too...

Quote:
The motives for this were twofold: 1) the heavy amount of Technetium needed to build Hulks meant increased Hulk 'turnover' would send Tech prices through the roof


The game has been broken on this for years. It's about time for insurance to reflect reality.

Way to completely ignore the rest of the post, selective reading appears to be your speciality.

Please expound on the reasons that you think insurance should reflect reality, it's early in the AM and I could really do with a giggle after I make some more coffee. While you're at it please tell us again, just for shiggles, how trading and industry are PvE, it's actually relevant because OTEC control the Tech price by restricting market supply via a partial trade embargo, and according to your posts elsewhere that's PvE.

The insurance system is fine, if it truly reflected reality, you'd be waiting 6 months for a payout and the insurance company would attempt to screw you over. If it were to reflect an ideal real world insurance scheme, the insurers would pay out the same day and pay out the full market value, ship loss would become inconsequential and a minor inconvenience.

The bigger alliances actually run something close to an ideal insurance scheme, it's called a ship replacement program, in the case of the OTEC alliances it's partly funded by Tech moons, and it's there to encourage PvP.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2013-04-07 05:34:19 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:
The reason the insurance payout is so low is because what the Goonies did

Incorrect, "the goonies" have nothing to do with how the payouts are structured, it has always been this way since the time CCP added T2 to the game.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2013-04-07 05:48:48 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Ace Uoweme wrote:
One look at EvE's history will tell you the truth.
Indeed it will:

“Ship insurance will now revalue itself periodically based on a trimmed mean of the ship's manufacturing materials global market weighted average prices. For more info, see The Circle of Life dev blog by CCP Chronotis.”

So no. Goons (or any other powerblock you're tinfoiling about) have SFA to do with the insurance you get from T2. The change you're asking for has already happened.

And while this is a change which was enabled in tyrannis, the fact of the matter is that it only affects the prices of the materials with which the insurance payout was calculated. T2 has always paid out significantly less, relatively speaking, than their T1 counterpart, because the T2 materials are never taken into account while doing the calculation.

In fact, I believe this change helped to decrease the ship prices because it reduced the point where buying the ship hull, insuring it and blowing it up was profitable.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2013-04-07 05:57:12 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
In fact, I believe this change helped to decrease the ship prices because it reduced the point where buying the ship hull, insuring it and blowing it up was profitable.


Retrievers want a talk with you about being cheaper.

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell

Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2013-04-07 06:07:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Lord Zim
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
In fact, I believe this change helped to decrease the ship prices because it reduced the point where buying the ship hull, insuring it and blowing it up was profitable.

Retrievers want a talk with you about being cheaper.

If you can manage to remember so far back as august or thereabouts, you'll remember that CCP did some major changes to the minerals consumed for building a single barge.

I mean, honestly... Roll

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Emma Royd
Maddled Gommerils
#31 - 2013-04-07 09:12:32 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:

If your house burned down, the insurance company isn't just going to pay for the reconstruction of the house, as policies cover the contents in the house, too.

Certainly in the UK, I don't know about anywhere else, it's fairly common to have seperate Building and Contents insurance, the building insurance should cover demolition and rebuild costs, the contents insurance covers possessions etc.

Ace Uoweme wrote:
One method of changing it is basing the payout based on how RL auto insurance operates. If you keep getting in wrecks the premium increases and increases. If you're a "good driver" the premiums decrease.


So, cheaper rates and higher payouts for those with a history of less "accidents" (and take the necessary precautions in having a ship). Those who continue to lose ships just because "I CAN!!!", face the reality of real insurance (in reality, carriers will drop you as a client, too).

People want EvE to be difficult, so let's have some more reality in the game.

I'll remember that the next time I'm flying my car through a warzone, don't compare eve to RL, eve is a game, RL is a joke, subtle differences.
Plus why should I get penalised if someone shot my ship, a gank squad can take down a T2 ship quite easily if they want to, and short of spamming the D-Scan button like a paranoid android, you take the risk that hopefully your tank will protect you against a normal gank and hope they don't come with anything bigger.

I never bother insuring T2 ships, the payout isn't worth it, and while I'm in empire and not so likely (crosses fingers) to lose ships, I don't bother with insurance at all.

The only change I would like to see with insurance is an optional top-up policy for stuff like cargo or modules, on T1 ships it's quite often that the value of the modules is more than the hull, and they're never covered, so it'd be nice to be able to purchase a seperate policy to cover such things, same with a freighter, I know - don't carry more than 7-8 hundred million in your cargo etc, and I don't. But since freighters only defence when caught is their HP (granted there is plenty of it generally) then the ability to purchase 'contents insurance' would be nice.

It could come with certain conditions, "This policy will not payout if the claim is made under the following conditions."

  • Ship in less than 0.5
  • Ship not on Autopilot
  • Corp not under wardec


Aquila Shadow
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#32 - 2013-04-07 10:20:36 UTC
Insurance is a scam, don't fall for it.

                                              "Let Vigilance Be Your Sword"

Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#33 - 2013-04-07 13:10:42 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:

If you can manage to remember so far back as august or thereabouts, you'll remember that CCP did some major changes to the minerals consumed for building a single barge.

I mean, honestly... Roll


Imagine why...

Emma Royd wrote:
Certainly in the UK, I don't know about anywhere else, it's fairly common to have seperate Building and Contents insurance, the building insurance should cover demolition and rebuild costs, the contents insurance covers possessions etc.


The only reason the content insurance is separate is due to how much of a policy you're willing to buy (especially additional riders), it's not excluded. If the house has a mortgage, the bank will require a mininum insured value, too (mortgage lenders want to ensure their property could be rebuilt in event of damage).

Emma Royd wrote:
I'll remember that the next time I'm flying my car through a warzone, don't compare eve to RL, eve is a game, RL is a joke, subtle differences.


Remember, your car in EvE is a ship, silly rabbit. ;)

EvE is a game that costs money, which in turn causes some to believe it to be RL investment (as they certainly judge it as so, otherwise they really wouldn't care).

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#34 - 2013-04-07 13:17:03 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:

If you can manage to remember so far back as august or thereabouts, you'll remember that CCP did some major changes to the minerals consumed for building a single barge.
I mean, honestly... Roll

Imagine why...
There's no need to imagine since we know the facts.
They changed the mineral content to remove the faux-progression between the different hulls, and to make them different in function rather than price and ability.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#35 - 2013-04-07 13:30:03 UTC
Blame those back in the day who used to self-destruct for cash payouts.

CCP had the only insurance policies in the world that paid out for suicide, and the ship you lost for destroying someone else in high sec.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882

Jabu Smith
Ast Bandit Holdings
#36 - 2013-05-10 08:43:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Jabu Smith
then why dont they bring full payouts back, unless under those conditions? if you attack another person in high sec and lose your ship. tough. if you decide you need some cash and instead of selling your ship decide to blow it well then you should suffer the consequences.

I like the idea of full coverage for my ships and modules. I for one would feel a whole lot better about going into low or null sec as im more of a casual player and while I can make a lot of isk/hr. I dont actually have that many spare hours to play.

so what I'm saying is, buy and fit a maelstrom end up spending 800mill. lose it in a legitimate battle and booom you get around half, if you're lucky back on that.

to make matters worse, you lose a lovely shiny Mach (yes I have) and you're 2 bill out of pocket. you get a pittiful payout!

I personally think it would encourage pvp big time. just saying.

Edited to say, it would encourage PvP among more casual players. (my opinion)
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#37 - 2013-05-10 08:46:30 UTC
Remove insurance, solved


.

Sipphakta en Gravonere
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2013-05-10 08:54:15 UTC
Jabu Smith wrote:
Edited to say, it would encourage PvP among more casual players. (my opinion)


It would remove any and all consequence to pvp. If that is what you want: http://www.hellokittyonline.com/
Jabu Smith
Ast Bandit Holdings
#39 - 2013-05-10 09:03:13 UTC
haha nice, yes however the risk is just too high for a casual player like myself. meh, I guess casual players tend to stay in high sec for that reason :)
Avalon Champion
Gallente Defence Evaluation Research Agency
#40 - 2013-05-10 09:11:38 UTC
Didnt someone a few years back try to create an IPO for T2 Ship insurance in line with the way Personal Line Insurance worked.


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