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Player flyable fighters
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Sev Centuar
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-04-05 23:48:34 UTC
Now in eve there is only one way you can control fighters. Its through carriers which is through drones which is inderict player
control. So i was thinking players should be able to use fighters derictley like any other ship. I beleive it can be done in a way
that it doesnt change the current form of combat but still feels like flying and using a fighter. Now as far as what the fighters will
be is they cna eitheir be the current ones just not used for drones. Or a new set of capsuleer fighters. Now you all probably
goign to whine that you have frigates in the game which in soem ways can be a fighter. But to balance the game fighters must require more skills and isk then a regualr frigate. so in terms training for a merlin couple of days training for a fighter 30-50 days.
price of a frigate 300k price of fighter 30m to 50m. This is neccesary due to the fact that a single fighter can do the dmg
of a cruiser and be faster than a frigate. So these prices and train times seem reasonable for this class of ship.
Why add fighters? First off iv asked many people and they agree fighters would be an awsome addition to the game.
Second they may add new tacticality to combat. third and finaly they can have fun multiplayer experaince for example
player controlled fighters can "dock" friendly carriers and support them in combat.

So please consider this thought. Big smile
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#2 - 2013-04-06 00:23:14 UTC
A few things:

- Frigates are basically larger, more capable fighters. Why would a fighter require more skills to pilot than a frigate?

- A well skilled and equipped Frigate (full Tech 2 fit) can jump up to about 7 to 10 mil a pop. Still not as expensive as a Fighter but not as cheap as you make them out to be.

- A Frigate may not be able to pump out "cruiser level" damage and HP... but in almost all other ways they are superior. Better weapon tracking and engagement envelopes, better speed and agility, can be customized, and are not limited to operating within the system its carrier is in.

- There are technical problems with your idea. The legacy code of EVE doesn't like more than one player in any one ship at any given time (so no docking in other players' ships). CCP might be able to fix this... but if they did it would call into question a whole host of other mechanics that were made to bypass this issue (ex. Titan Jump Bridges, Jump Clone Bays, etc)

How did you Veterans start?
Sev Centuar
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#3 - 2013-04-06 02:46:44 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
A few things:

- Frigates are basically larger, more capable fighters. Why would a fighter require more skills to pilot than a frigate?

- A well skilled and equipped Frigate (full Tech 2 fit) can jump up to about 7 to 10 mil a pop. Still not as expensive as a Fighter but not as cheap as you make them out to be.

- A Frigate may not be able to pump out "cruiser level" damage and HP... but in almost all other ways they are superior. Better weapon tracking and engagement envelopes, better speed and agility, can be customized, and are not limited to operating within the system its carrier is in.

- There are technical problems with your idea. The legacy code of EVE doesn't like more than one player in any one ship at any given time (so no docking in other players' ships). CCP might be able to fix this... but if they did it would call into question a whole host of other mechanics that were made to bypass this issue (ex. Titan Jump Bridges, Jump Clone Bays, etc)



-To be exact frigates are corvette class ship which is like a fighter but you have soem diffrences.

-I see your point with the skill and cost thing. Its possible fighters could help noobs in protecting themselves
against agrresors

-well a fighter will basicaly have cruiser dmg and HP. also include better weapon tracking, increased speed and agility and can be costimized. i seek the idea where fighters can have costimization and be derictly player controlled. Not jsut be drones. Think star citizen or descent.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2013-04-06 03:23:28 UTC
Fighters do 50 base DPS with fighters V they do 100 DPS, on a Thanatos or Nyx they can do up to 125 DPS.
That kind of damage is easily surpassed by a T1 frigate with T2 fittings.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Felsusguy
Panopticon Engineering
#5 - 2013-04-06 08:16:56 UTC
Sev Centuar wrote:
-To be exact frigates are corvette class ship which is like a fighter but you have soem diffrences.

To be exact, Corvettes are completely separate from Frigates like Destroyers are from Cruisers.
If you don't know ship terminology, I'm not trusting your suggestions for EVE.

The Caldari put business before pleasure. The Gallente put business in pleasure.
Hakan MacTrew
Konrakas Forged
Solyaris Chtonium
#6 - 2013-04-06 08:34:25 UTC
Sev Centuar wrote:
-well a fighter will basicaly have cruiser dmg and HP. also include better weapon tracking, increased speed and agility and can be costimized. i seek the idea where fighters can have costimization and be derictly player controlled. Not jsut be drones. Think star citizen or descent.

Now here is the biggest issue with what your putting forward:

If you read what fighters are, you will see that they are one man ships and that they perform in a similar manner to undersized frigates. Your presenting a ship that is smaller and faster than a frigate but tanks and puts out dps like a cruiser.
You don't think that's a little out of balance at all?
Your essentially saying that a little gunboat should outperform frigates and cruisers in every way. Name one reason anyone would fly frigates, destroyers or cruisers ever again.

As for the concept of player operated carrier fighters; who would be willing to turn over control of their weapons to other people? Who would be willing to put their ship, and pod, under someone else's control? What happens when one or the other DCs? And this is before the legacy coding issues.

Now don't get me wrong, I like the idea of player piloted fighters, I really do. But that's not a good enough reason to put them in game.
What follows is the most important question that you must ask before suggesting anything new for EVE:

"What can it do that something else can't?"

So, the carrier aspect and your massively OP'd dps and hp not withstanding, what would a fighter actually do that a frigate can't?

Friends
Hakan MacTrew
Konrakas Forged
Solyaris Chtonium
#7 - 2013-04-06 08:35:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Hakan MacTrew
double post

Friends
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#8 - 2013-04-06 08:37:21 UTC
I would support the idea as long as fighters can't warp, thus restricting them to the field of battle.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
Hakan MacTrew
Konrakas Forged
Solyaris Chtonium
#9 - 2013-04-06 12:10:30 UTC
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
I would support the idea as long as fighters can't warp, thus restricting them to the field of battle.

Why?

Fighters already have the ability to warp, so why foes that need to be removed?

Friends
Sev Centuar
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#10 - 2013-04-06 16:19:05 UTC
well then again...there could be differences between fighters and frigates in a good enough way a fighter can destroy a
cruiser but in the same time a tengu or a osprey can destroy the fighter.

Plus about the fighters and trusting thing. In real life fighter pilots are not drones. There humans inside them too
what fights better a robot or a human? Plus it doesn't seem realistic with the current fighter implantation in the game.
Guns for hire can easily turn on there commanders.

As for roles in combat fighters can serve as support for fleets. plus destroyers and cruisers are very capable of taking down
fighters.
Basically im saying fighters can have there pros and cons, frigates have there pros and cones, destroyers have there cons and pros etc etc. Im not making one class superior to the other.
Drake Doe
88Th Tax Haven
#11 - 2013-04-06 18:08:07 UTC
Actually in comparison to frigates fighters are overall worse, lower dps, higher sig, slower, and have cruiser tracking with t1 frigate dps.

"The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! pops more corn" ---Evernub--
Hakan MacTrew
Konrakas Forged
Solyaris Chtonium
#12 - 2013-04-07 01:10:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Hakan MacTrew
Sev Centuar wrote:
well then again...there could be differences between fighters and frigates in a good enough way a fighter can destroy a
cruiser but in the same time a tengu or a osprey can destroy the fighter.

Plus about the fighters and trusting thing. In real life fighter pilots are not drones. There humans inside them too
what fights better a robot or a human? Plus it doesn't seem realistic with the current fighter implantation in the game.
Guns for hire can easily turn on there commanders.

As for roles in combat fighters can serve as support for fleets. plus destroyers and cruisers are very capable of taking down
fighters.
Basically im saying fighters can have there pros and cons, frigates have there pros and cones, destroyers have there cons and pros etc etc. Im not making one class superior to the other.

Thats a lot of words.

Non of them actually state any legitimate reason to instate player piloted fighters. All you say is, "They could do stuff." Except you don't even say what stuff.

If you can't think of a role for fighters to fill that is not covered already by another ship, then what is the point in putting them into the game?

Also, fighters are not actually drones. They are piloted by NPC's that take commands from the player, using the drone interface.

Oh, and you did suggest to make them better than almost everything under BC class ships. A ship that is msaller and faster than a frigate, but has the tank and dps of a cruiser is way better than anything under BC size until you get to T3's.

Friends
Drake Doe
88Th Tax Haven
#13 - 2013-04-07 03:40:44 UTC
Hakan MacTrew wrote:
Sev Centuar wrote:
well then again...there could be differences between fighters and frigates in a good enough way a fighter can destroy a
cruiser but in the same time a tengu or a osprey can destroy the fighter.

Plus about the fighters and trusting thing. In real life fighter pilots are not drones. There humans inside them too
what fights better a robot or a human? Plus it doesn't seem realistic with the current fighter implantation in the game.
Guns for hire can easily turn on there commanders.

As for roles in combat fighters can serve as support for fleets. plus destroyers and cruisers are very capable of taking down
fighters.
Basically im saying fighters can have there pros and cons, frigates have there pros and cones, destroyers have there cons and pros etc etc. Im not making one class superior to the other.

Thats a lot of words.

Non of them actually state any legitimate reason to instate player piloted fighters. All you say is, "They could do stuff." Except you don't even say what stuff.

If you can't think of a role for fighters to fill that is not covered already by another ship, then what is the point in putting them into the game?

Also, fighters are not actually drones. They are piloted by NPC's that take commands from the player, using the drone interface.

Oh, and you did suggest to make them better than almost everything under BC class ships. A ship that is msaller and faster than a frigate, but has the tank and dps of a cruiser is way better than anything under BC size until you get to T3's.

Dps of a cruiser? Even with maxed skills a thanatos only gets a little over 1k with 15 (if I remember correctly)

"The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! pops more corn" ---Evernub--
Hakan MacTrew
Konrakas Forged
Solyaris Chtonium
#14 - 2013-04-07 09:03:32 UTC
Drake Doe wrote:
Hakan MacTrew wrote:
Sev Centuar wrote:
well then again...there could be differences between fighters and frigates in a good enough way a fighter can destroy a
cruiser but in the same time a tengu or a osprey can destroy the fighter.

Plus about the fighters and trusting thing. In real life fighter pilots are not drones. There humans inside them too
what fights better a robot or a human? Plus it doesn't seem realistic with the current fighter implantation in the game.
Guns for hire can easily turn on there commanders.

As for roles in combat fighters can serve as support for fleets. plus destroyers and cruisers are very capable of taking down
fighters.
Basically im saying fighters can have there pros and cons, frigates have there pros and cones, destroyers have there cons and pros etc etc. Im not making one class superior to the other.

Thats a lot of words.

Non of them actually state any legitimate reason to instate player piloted fighters. All you say is, "They could do stuff." Except you don't even say what stuff.

If you can't think of a role for fighters to fill that is not covered already by another ship, then what is the point in putting them into the game?

Also, fighters are not actually drones. They are piloted by NPC's that take commands from the player, using the drone interface.

Oh, and you did suggest to make them better than almost everything under BC class ships. A ship that is msaller and faster than a frigate, but has the tank and dps of a cruiser is way better than anything under BC size until you get to T3's.

Dps of a cruiser? Even with maxed skills a thanatos only gets a little over 1k with 15 (if I remember correctly)

I know. Read the OP. I can only guess he is referring to **** fit week old character cruisers.

Friends
Sev Centuar
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#15 - 2013-04-08 01:02:17 UTC
Ill admit my ideas are pretty shity..

But CCP is the developer of eve. If they can somehow do what I asked which is directly player controlled fighters,
in a way that would not screw with he game. I wouldn't be surprised last time i suggested a gas mining frigate.
They the awsome devs they are combined the noob barge with my idea and my the mining frigate of some more
use.
Liam Inkuras
Furnace
Thermodynamics
#16 - 2013-04-08 04:08:34 UTC
Throw the Dust Bunnies in fighters. That'd be hilarious

I wear my goggles at night.

Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone
Hakan MacTrew
Konrakas Forged
Solyaris Chtonium
#17 - 2013-04-08 11:33:03 UTC
Sev Centuar wrote:
Ill admit my ideas are pretty *****..

But CCP is the developer of eve. If they can somehow do what I asked which is directly player controlled fighters,
in a way that would not screw with he game. I wouldn't be surprised last time i suggested a gas mining frigate.
They the awsome devs they are combined the noob barge with my idea and my the mining frigate of some more
use.

Now heres the problem. Many people suggested a gas mining frigate. There was nothing dedicated to gas mining, so there was a niche that had not been filled. The same cannot be said for Fighters. The best niche that could be filled by Fighters is that of the interceptor. But we already have T1 and T2 variants of this role.

The only other role I can think of would be one based off similar priciples to the stealth bomber. Ships designed to take on larger ships and smaller faster targets. In this case, Fighters would need to be designed to take on friagtes while fighter bombers would take on cruiser sized targets.

Basically, I would see these ships focusing even more on speed and sig tanking. The Bombers could use Assault Missiles the same way that Stealth Bombers use Torps. Oh, and no cloaking.

I will be the first to admit, this is a seriously flimsy reason, but it's a start. If anyone has better idea's as to what role Fighters could fill, I would love to hear them.

Friends
Sev Centuar
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#18 - 2013-04-08 21:36:50 UTC
Hakan MacTrew wrote:
Sev Centuar wrote:
Ill admit my ideas are pretty *****..

But CCP is the developer of eve. If they can somehow do what I asked which is directly player controlled fighters,
in a way that would not screw with he game. I wouldn't be surprised last time i suggested a gas mining frigate.
They the awsome devs they are combined the noob barge with my idea and my the mining frigate of some more
use.

Now heres the problem. Many people suggested a gas mining frigate. There was nothing dedicated to gas mining, so there was a niche that had not been filled. The same cannot be said for Fighters. The best niche that could be filled by Fighters is that of the interceptor. But we already have T1 and T2 variants of this role.

The only other role I can think of would be one based off similar priciples to the stealth bomber. Ships designed to take on larger ships and smaller faster targets. In this case, Fighters would need to be designed to take on friagtes while fighter bombers would take on cruiser sized targets.

Basically, I would see these ships focusing even more on speed and sig tanking. The Bombers could use Assault Missiles the same way that Stealth Bombers use Torps. Oh, and no cloaking.

I will be the first to admit, this is a seriously flimsy reason, but it's a start. If anyone has better idea's as to what role Fighters could fill, I would love to hear them.


mmmm...I like it. But an another thing is fighters can have a turret which can shoot 360 and 4 guns facing the front.
to make it fair unlike frigates they shoot from the front. so normal t1 is anti frigate ship and anti fighter ship combat role-
fighter bomber (maybe it could be a t2 variant) . Sig taking and speed for both and use assult missles for bombers.
I think fighters should be different from the drone variants due to the fact any ol guy can buy one and go do stuff.
Fighters could also be great pirate ships as well maybe..i don't know but if we can build on ideas CCP will accept
fighter idea fully.