Player Features and Ideas Discussion

To give some idea on how likely it is to be ganked with a low value cargo/none based on the above numbers it is .16667. This could probably be further reduced by using a scout.



Not only that, but how many people will want to put even more valuable cargo into their hold and thus lead to larger gank squads. Goons run 10-30 man squads as it is now. The claim is that 6 talos can gank a freighter. Lets assume 8 due to issues of coordination, and not everybody is going to land a solid hit. If you double the tank of the existing freighter, that wont do much to Goons, instead of the average 16 man squad they'll jump up to 20.

So in a few weeks the usual cast of characters will be back here saying they need even more EHP, faster align time, whatever is their flavor du jour for solving the gank problem.



Your ship will be insured, unless you are amazingly stupid, and theirs wont be. So they'll end up with the worse of it right? You keep telling us it is all about the isk right? Or are you back tracking now?

If it is "all about the isk" then the notion of decoy containers would up the uncertainty...it would basically reduce the expected payout of the gankers. That alone will mean that they'll limit themselves to only the very largest/fattest of targets. Meaning that if you keep a reasonable limit on cargo value you will be even more safe.

Now, if you care to dispute this...then it really isn't all about the isk value of the cargo is it, and all that talk is just ****ing bullshit. Isn't it?

By the way, here is my prediction if you let people put a tank on a freighter this is what will happen:

Haulers will see a drop in suicide ganks.
Haulers will start hauling even more valuable cargo.
When the value of the cargo hits a new limit based on the tank fitted ganking will re-appear.
We'll have more posts about how freighters need a new buff.



True, if somebody really wants to gank you, there isn't much that can be done. That is how it is in this game. And it is true with just about any ship you are in. Still, the harder you make it for them to do so, the less inclined they will be to make the attempt. If you are asking for absolute safty, GTFO. No, really just uninstall the game please. If not, well...you know what this game is about, adapt or die.

Hmmm...don't you also need the probability of having a low value cargo?

That is via Bayes theorem:

P(G|LV) = P(LV|G)*P(G)/P(LV)

Where LV = low value cargo, G is gank. Still the result will be proportional to P(LV|G)*P(G) which, if I'm reading your calculations correctly is between (0.00027,0.0027). I suppose you could argue that at most about half of the freighters are going to be empty (loaded one way, empty on the return....). In this case, double your estimates to (0.00054,0.0054).

Yes, no? Been awhile since I've had to apply Bayes theorem.

I was using the following:

P (A & B) = P (A) * P ( B | A) = P (B) * P (A | B).

Probability (Ganked and Low value ) = P ( Low Value given Ganked) * P (Ganked)

Your suggestion, using Bayes rule is probably more appropriate: The probability of being ganked Given Low Value:

P ( Ganked given Low Value) = P (LV and Ganked) / P ( Low Value) = P(LV | G) P(G) / P(LV)

If you assume every freighter makes a round trip through the system, full in one direction and empty in the other, then P(LV) = 0.5, giving you the stated range of (0.00054,0.0054).

YES, more options!!

Suggestions for other mods

• Cargo scanner jammers. Blocks or corrupts output generated by Cargo scanner. After all, Ship scanners have a random component, Cargo scanners are 100% accurate <-- very wrong
• Warp steering thruster. Allows for course corrections during warp and thus increasing the tolerance in allign requirement before warping by x (20??) degrees
• Jump gate/Dock enhancer. Increases the accept range of jump gates/dock requests by x km. No scripts 2.5. Script for Jump gate only (5km) or dock only (5km)
• Capital Micro Jump Drive. See "Large Micro Jump Drive". Usage puts significant stress on hull resulting in damage depending on skill (10% at lvl 1, 5% at lvl 5)
• Capital Drone bay. Module limit 1. 125m3, 100 Mbit/sec. Launched (logistic/ewar) drones should be able to Engage Freighter/capital ship

This is very gay aspect of eve.. One to improve in the game should not require more accounts. It makes it more difficult for new people to land in the game and also possibly quitting the gamee due to this fact that you need dual account for several things in game. Multi accounting should not be endorsed but be wrecked!

The most common way of ganking freighters right now is the log in trap, the gank fleet does not log in until the freighter is already caught by the bumpers. your scout will see nothing that looks like a gank squad unless they are already ganking someone. As the bumpers are usually in not so obvious ships and in NPC corps. The log on trap is how is is usually done, not occasionally, but the normal way. As far as being at the right gate, if you are hauling into Jita there are certain gates that are choke points that you can not avoid or go around. If you want to go around you have to go through low sec. these are systems like Uedama that you can not avoid that the gankers set up in.

There are many many ships that are effective bumpers. it will not be a mack, the best are actually cruisers fit with 1600mm plates and a MWD. if you are to avoid any system with ships on gate capable of bumping a freighter you will not get within 4-5 jumps of Jita, ever.
Your best bet is an escort that will triple web you into a fast warp. But the gankers have a way around that as well. An alt in an NPC corp that can insta lock you and hit you with a srcam. Yes this will spawn CONCORD, but that will not save you. This sacrificed cheap alt does not tackle you for the gank fleet, but so the bumpers have time to start bumping you. bumping can be done indefinitely without causing aggro or spawning CONCORD. They will bump you away from the CONCORD spawn before the Gank fleet attacks. They can log in at this point, but CONCORD will not touch them until they attack. and since they are not associated with the tackler, CONCORD will treat them as a new threat, and a new CONCORD spawn will come for them, not the ones already on grid.
As far as logging off goes, good luck with that, the tackler started your 15 minute log off timer, this does not take 15 minutes to do.
Mind you this extra effort is generally only put into freighters that are very juicy targets, But my point is this is very easy to do for a well organized team. And GOONS null sec has been quite lately, they are bored, this is there entertainment. They do not do it for the profit, the profit is just an added bonus that supports the fleet and allows them to keep doing it without costing them anything.

There are not many ways between trade hubs such as Jita and Amarr. Sure you can find probably dozens of different routes(not hundreds), but you will go through the same choke point systems no matter whic way you go. Caldari and Amarr space are separated by low sec area's. There are only a couple choke points you can go through that do not involve passing through low sec. You go through Uedama or you go 20 jumps out of your way to reach another choke point which is just as dangerous.

As far as double wrapping you are wrong again. true there is about a 50/50 chance of the package dropping. But a freighter without freight containers will generally drop about 50% of its contents. So you are looking at 50% of the value dropping, or 50% chance of 100% of the value dropping. this puts them about even. Except if you consider the fact that a double wrapped package is most likely hiding something of greater value than the freighter without double wrapped cargo. making the freighter with the double wrapped cargo more appealing. i.e. double wrapping will make the target on your back bigger.

Hate to burst your bubble but your freighter not getting ganked in not due to your skill as a pilot but only luck that your number has not come up.

I myself have never lost a freighter, but I have participated in these ganks. I know first hand how easy it is to pull them off. I have been taught the methods to overcome every possible anti gank tactic. Even some that are not yet public knowledge. I say freighter ganking is far to easy. Not just from a freighter pilots perspective, but from seeing it from the other side. It is just far to easy to pull off.

Since when is ganking emergent game play? Gnaking is something that is tolerated in all MMO's only because it can not be stopped. But there is no reason to support it as emergent gameplay. That is the biggest line of sh*t I have ever read on these forums.

Yes they do, but there is never a guarantee that one of those higher value targets is sitting beside you. As freighter ganking continues to rise in popularity there will be less and less juicy targets and more just like you.

You are not a new person if you're flying a Freighter around.

A new person, however, can certainly help a corpmate fly his Freighter safely either by webbing it (Propulsion Jamming 3-4 is not long and should be trained anyway) or scouting, with some coaching from the freighter pilot him/herself.

Yes. On several occasions I've personally deflected bumps using anything from a BC to a BS by putting my ship between the bumper and his target. It takes practice, it takes paying attention, and it takes some pretty detailed flying acumen, but it can work.

I've even counter-bumped - ie; bumping a freighter back into docking range of a station, or jump range of a gate.

The folks over at Red Frog even developed a method to save a freighter that has been otherwise irrecoverably bumped. Again, their method takes smarts, a little planning ahead, and piloting acumen to execute, but by no means is a bumped freighter committed to dying.

You may notice a theme in my response here and in my previous responses in this thread. The theme is that safely moving something like a freighter requires teamwork. If you refuse to use teamwork, then you pretty much have no argument against freighter ganking.

They need their own modules (like caps) that let you make it more survivable but at significant cost.

So +1 but only if its balanced, more expensive.