Market Discussions

A functional shares/stock market.

Maybe force corporations to pay out of their masters wallet every month. The corporation would have to have 100% shares to not "leak" isk.
It'll make it possible for investors to buy the shares and sell them between other players, much like real shares.

Some of these



are better than others



For a variety of reasons, some of which fall under this.

I intend to sort the final document to handle this issue.

The more ccp-time demanding and more complex ones will go last, the simpler more realistic ones first.
So the longer and more detailed ideas are mostly inspirational and considered brainstorm material.

Links to other sources, photoshop muckups or demo videos etc would be very nice.

Like this: Wallet Focus on Item

Its a tragedy we dont get proper QEN anymore. I was promised more data mining of statistics when I was at Fan Fest back in 2009. The fact that we still dont have this 4 years later is really embarrassing. Just grant access to market data historic older than 1 week and similar full access to all other relevant data.

We really also need better ingame visualisations of data, especially the map needs more stats for datamining, and even an export function would make players able to easily create most of this type of QEN oriented material.

I def set this aspect a +5

Regarding the division wallet, I see your point, but I think it would be a lot of ccp-hours for a rather small change. I think something like this would fit into some sort of future limited corporation type functionality. An idea that has been brainstormed over a bit by a few in MD. I personally like that direction of thinking, since it would make some sort of easy nerf of npc corps. Forcing players to go solo and eventually into a corp or an alliance. A mini corp like this would ofc have wallet divisions and many of the traditional features. It would lack shares and maybe limited membership to 1 tier skill level.

A proper loan contract system.

My idea is for a system of creditor and loan contracts.

- A creditor contract is simply someome putting up a sum of isk, with interest terms and everything set, ready for someone to accept.
- A loan contract is someone requesting cash, and offering interest & security terms they hope is attractive.

The trust problem.
The big issue here, is that in order for the loan contract system to garner any trust and major use for large isk volumes, it needs to have strong asset-recovery abilities in the event of a confirmed default. This is probably a pie in the sky fantasy, but I think this could have the potential to be the central feature of a finance/industry themed expansion.

So, should someone with debt fail to meet their interest or loan repayment, and depending on the terms of the contract, here's some example mechanics I can think of, which could kick in until the sum is recovered:


Isk streams which go to the creditor
- Most of current wallet content
- NPC & Player Bounties, Rewards
- Ship insurance
- Portion of market, contract & trade window proceeds
- Portion of isk sent to and from the player, (And corp wallet if avail, see the guarantor part below)
- LP & Research points (If a suitable base value can be established)

Possible other non-isk related mechanics
- Giving the SCC powers to seize assets in hangers of pilots with loan defaults.

• The "Estimated Market Value" feature already in game could possibly be used to identify valuable assets, starting with the single-most valuable stacks and assets (and their contents), and begin transferring them.
• Min-value caps would be in place so it doesn't choke the server and sieze low-volume amounts of every nut bolt and shuttle they ever had.

Guarantors/Vouches
- A loan/creditor contract can have guarantors attached, which will be jointly responsible for whatever isk is outstanding (after asset recovery has taken place against the defaultee)
- If the remaining defaulted isk is not made available within a time window, the above mechanics can come into effect against these people also.
- Guarantors can be a corporation directly or a player, and can also have a minimum SP level enforced to discourage throwaways.

I hope that gets some ideas going. Here's some rough options I envisage the system having. Some can apply to both types of contact.


- Minimum SP level
- Length of term (x months or open-ended)
- Interest payment frequency and %age
- Definition of default
- Default recovery options

• Asset recovery? Isk streams diverted? LP&RP? Market, trade & contract revenue? Corp wallet & assets?*

- Est value of collateral desired (If the above is not enough) (Creditor can review before contract is final)
- Guarantors needed & their minimum SP, In addition to or in absense of collateral.

* Note on corp ideas. If a CEO or someone with full wallet access attaches their corp to the loan (or the creditor requires it), there's nothing stopping them just leaving the corp after accepting the loan. Ideally a corp vote would need to be completed so everyone understands their corp & it's assets are responsible if the ceo/finance manager defaults, and that the ceo/directors understand the finance manager role cannot be removed from the person while their loan is in progress. If the person tries to leave the guarantor corp while the loan is active (or loses CEO status), they would be warned that this action would trigger an immediate default and asset recovery first against the person, then the corp.


PS. Sorry if this doesn't belong here :(
P.P.S. My apologies if these are terrible ideas, but I have minor hopes my hour of brainspew was of some value. :(

My biggest objection to any sort of attempt to implement a loan system in-game is that it's either going to be so burdened down with rules and restrictions that no one will really want to use it, or it will have enough holes in it that it will become one heck of a scamming tool (which means no one will really want to use it.)

That applies double if we're talking about NPCs giving out loans, too. At least RawringDragon's idea is simply facilitating player to player loans.

This, at least, wouldn't be necessary. Every killmail I've seen from ships with bounties or that yielded an LP payout for FW has that "Pend Insurance Estimate" value that differs considerably from the actual value of the ship, and it's that value used to calculate payout. Obvious conclusion is that CCP inserted some tweaks into the payout calculation to prevent the sort of manipulation we did for FW Forex, which would be exactly what you'd do to abuse a loan system too.

I would have to say the ability to trade shares like bookmarks for purposes of a trade window would be useful so as to facilitate a level of trust when dealing.

To be honest, a few of the ideas seem less about MD and more about S&I, but perhaps Caleb means "ideas of interest to people who hang out in MD" rather than "ideas related to MD". I don't suppose it really matters either way, but I'm a bit pedantic and feel a little better getting that off my chest.

Concept: alter "reprocessing" to have many of the aspects of manufacturing (reprocessing is essentially reverse manufacturing).
I hear the objections now. "Wait just a darn minute -- that's an S&I idea you hypocrite!" I agree with you to a point, but I believe it would have some significant MD-related impacts. But first, allow me to more fully flesh out my idea.

Reprocessing would no longer be an instant event. It would be an event much like manufacturing. There would be NPC reprocessing lines instituted. Those lines would have fees (ISK sink). Those lines would have queues. The fees and queues would need to be weighed against selling surplus inventory, thus possibly driving more trade (such as looted modules). Skills would be created to control the number of reprocessing jobs a character can control (skillbook ISK sink). Skills created to affect the time for a reprocessing job (another skillbook ISK sink), e.g. base reprocessing time is 25% of the BPO manufacturing time, skill reduces that by 3 points per level.

Reprocessing POS modules and reprocessing outpost upgrades might be needed. The reprocessing fees would go to the controlling corporation or alliance, similar to manufacturing lines' fees.

MDD

We also had a little talk about PI. This started from a basic argument I would really hope Mynnna will take up with CCP.

NO Stationary entities need limited storage. Instead put the limitations on moving capacities. This is similar to the above mentioned capacity of production over time, just like moving goods in ships have a time limitation by hauler size and speeds.

This ties into a rather simple solution idea to many of the PI woes.

Make all the storages infinite except for the Launch Pad (25.000 m3)

Then let all the pipes be limited in volume moved per time.
Capacity would be depending on pipeline upgrades and thus CPU / POWER and ISK sink.

When you move materials the speed of flow can be helped by using buffer methods.
So you could set extractors to exctract until you have a buffer to keep things running. This would highly reduce the feeling of clicking, even though it would be fairly similar in the end.

With an optional Express movement manually activated but at isk cost.

Another optional would be using the "over heat" mechanics is a variation Over Worked Laborers.
You would then ship in Slaves, Scientist, Workers, Marines etc to "buff" and remove debuffs.

The Control towers would have different modifiers fitting the race. SO Gal would have better CPU, Caldari would have Better Transportation, Amarr would have access to cheaper laborers (to remove over worked) and Minnies would have better extractors. More detail can be tweaked.

Letting storage be infinite would also mean a lot more potential for future functionality and new types of installments on planets. These would ofc fit well into the DUST visuals and its Narrative and gameplay.